Gambling

maha · Mar 22, 2020

gambling is betting on games where the outcome is risky.
and not in mostly predetermined bets as in most pool games.

it is a genuine recognized profession and is only looked down upon by those that do not understand it. and confuse the profession with the disease.

just like being a professional wine taster as opposed to a drunkard.

trentfromtoledo · Mar 22, 2020

maha said:
gambling is betting on games where the outcome is risky.
and not in mostly predetermined bets as in most pool games.

it is a genuine recognized profession and is only looked down upon by those that do not understand it. and confuse the profession with the disease.

just like being a professional wine taster as opposed to a drunkard.

I to hear other peoples perspectives. Please explain to me how gambling has helped pool as a sport?

TFT

straightline · Mar 22, 2020

trentfromtoledo said:
I to hear other peoples perspectives. Please explain to me how gambling has helped pool as a sport?

TFT

Gambling, however you define it is the reason pool exists. There's that Mr. Science bit where you put grape seeds in a glass of Champagne and the seeds will pick up Co2 and rise to the top where they lose the gas and fall back to the bottom in a cycle driven by the amount of available gas. That's how the pool industry works.

trentfromtoledo · Mar 22, 2020

straightline said:
Gambling, however you define it is the reason pool exists. There's that Mr. Science bit where you put grape seeds in a glass of Champagne and the seeds will pick up Co2 and rise to the top where they lose the gas and fall back to the bottom in a cycle driven by the amount of available gas. That's how the pool industry works.

Interesting opinion.

TFT

P.s. I happen to work in the pool industry and have accounts with all the major table manufacturers and equipment wholesalers. My opinion is that gambling between players has no place in pool

I would prefer not at all, but, sports gambling might be a part of the sport in the U.S., oh wait, players who are dishonest learned how to DUMP....

straightline · Mar 22, 2020

trentfromtoledo said:
Interesting opinion.

TFT

P.s. I happen to work in the pool industry and have accounts with all the major table manufacturers and equipment wholesalers. My opinion is that gambling between players has no place in pool I would prefer not at all, but, sports gambling might be a part of the sport in the U.S., oh wait, players who are dishonest learned how to DUMP....

Ok, maybe "pool industry" is too broad but mathematically, no sharks, no good players. :grin-square:

trentfromtoledo · Mar 22, 2020

straightline said:
Ok, maybe "pool industry" is too broad but mathematically, no sharks, no good players. :grin-square:

IMO: A "shark" is someone who intentionally plays bad to get someone to gamble and then takes their money. This may have been "cool" at some point in pool history. I have never found it to be "cool" at all and happy those times are GONE...

TFT

straightline · Mar 22, 2020

trentfromtoledo said:
IMO: A "shark" is someone who intentionally plays bad to get someone to gamble and then takes their money. This may have been "cool" at some point in pool history. I have never found it to be "cool" at all and happy those times are GONE...

TFT

No that's a hustler. Technically " a shark" is one who distracts to steal - ummm the inNING. I don't know anyone like that do you? :grin-square:

trentfromtoledo · Mar 22, 2020

straightline said:
No that's a hustler. Technically " a shark" is one who distracts to steal - ummm the inNING. I don't know anyone like that do you? :grin-square:

I stand corrected. that does make more sense. The best "table talkers" don't even know when they are doing it.

I got to play Johnny Archer last September. I have 4 GC's I restored for a small Hotel's bar up in Maine. Race to 7 in 9 ball. His warm up match before he started playing all the locals. Right as we got up to go play he said in his very southern accent " Imma Tear you up Trennnnnt". He ran the first rack down to the 9 and missed, freebie 1st game for me, I legit beat him the second rack and after that I shot twice. It was a good time even though he stomped me. I thought about it after and I was like: he table talked me before we even started, damn, he is GOOD!!!

TFT

straightline · Mar 22, 2020

I met Archer in the 90s, he was using that white Scorpion. I thought it was all ivory lol. He was pretty much like all the top players; best foot forward, amicable...

he gambles too

:smile:

jay helfert · Mar 23, 2020

HawaiianEye said:
I used to play pool for money, almost every day of the week, for years and I never really considered it to be "gambling". I considered it like a "job", where I got "paid" for all the hours I'd spent practicing and playing.

The people who were "gambling" were my opponents who, usually, had nowhere near the table time I had and were trying to make some sort of score.

I won tons of money as a "kid", when everybody would bet money a "kid" couldn't beat them.

You already know that we are cut from the same cloth. I could watch a guy play one rack and know whether or not I could beat him. After that the rest was all a formality. :grin:

jay helfert · Mar 23, 2020

trentfromtoledo said:
I stand corrected. that does make more sense. The best "table talkers" don't even know when they are doing it.

I got to play Johnny Archer last September. I have 4 GC's I restored for a small Hotel's bar up in Maine. Race to 7 in 9 ball. His warm up match before he started playing all the locals. Right as we got up to go play he said in his very southern accent " Imma Tear you up Trennnnnt". He ran the first rack down to the 9 and missed, freebie 1st game for me, I legit beat him the second rack and after that I shot twice. It was a good time even though he stomped me. I thought about it after and I was like: he table talked me before we even started, damn, he is GOOD!!!

TFT

Johnny Archer was "Shane" back in the 90's. He could win any tournament (and he won a lot of them) and he wasn't afraid to take on anyone and bet all he had. Just for the record, he is one of the top ten players of the last 30 years!

Only the absolute best could play with Johnny. Guys like Buddy (His close friend), Bustamante, Tadd, Parica (Numero Uno), Strickland and the like. I was backing Parica a little bit back then in tournaments and he told me once that Johnny was the guy he most feared!

One other thing I'd like to add to this thread. Gambling is part of our culture, here and abroad. Our level of gambling pales in comparison to some of the Asian cultures where people will work for a year and then bet it all on one play in a Macau casino! As for the mention of dumping in pool, that also goes on in all other sports! Tennis matches have been dumped, Snooker - come on!, pro golfers used to routinely make "deals" on how to split up the prize money, basketball has had it's share of players who shave points for the gamblers, baseball players have bet on games, and on and on. Like it or not, it's here to stay as long as human beings are competing against each other.

jasonlaus · Mar 23, 2020

DynoDan said:
In the small midwest town where I grew up in the 50s (10,000 population) there were 5 poolrooms. In the two or three with better equipment, there was always a continuous ring game going on (dimes or quarters)...after all, that’s why they called it ‘POOL’. The ‘gambling’ aspect is why I still can’t always control the cueball! I was conditioned when young to turn whitey loose, just to see where he would end up, much like how roulette players stare at the wheel to see where that little ball will land. I HAVE gotten smarter over the years, and can usually resist the the inclination under pressure to revert to my childhood instincts.
But (go figure), I now find myself residing in a ‘bible belt’ geographic location where absolutely NO ONE is interested in gambling on pool games! The ‘sportsman’ class of ‘game’ individuals who were always ready for action has apparently died out. I (luckily) was never an inveterate gambler who played for high stakes, but Jeez, WTF, why is nobody willing to risk even chicken feed to make the game more interesting?
The world certainly has changed.

I expected to see this dated 15yrs ago lol

trentfromtoledo · Mar 23, 2020

straightline said:
he gambles too

:smile:

Not what he told me when I met him

A couple of guys asked him to play for money is what brought it up.

Earl was there as well, he said he does not gamble anymore(an has not for a very long time) either.

"Gambling is part of our culture,"

Maybe that is why pool is having such a hard time becoming a Professional Sport??

I understand gambling exists in all sports, but, don't see any real benefits to it. For every person who can "afford" to gamble or is a "good gambler" I think there are 1000 more who are losing and causing strife in their lives. "Money is the root of all evil", I tend to find this to be true. I work hard for my money and don't like the nervous feeling I get about losing it on a bet. Just my feelings and opinion on the topic.

TFT

straightline · Mar 23, 2020

trentfromtoledo said:
Not what he told me when I met him A couple of guys asked him to play for money is what brought it up.

Earl was there as well, he said he does not gamble anymore(an has not for a very long time) either.

"Gambling is part of our culture,"

Maybe that is why pool is having such a hard time becoming a Professional Sport??

I understand gambling exists in all sports, but, don't see any real benefits to it. For every person who can "afford" to gamble or is a "good gambler" I think there are 1000 more who are losing and causing strife in their lives. "Money is the root of all evil", I tend to find this to be true. I work hard for my money and don't like the nervous feeling I get about losing it on a bet. Just my feelings and opinion on the topic.

TFT

I may have shared a ride with Earl when he was this brown haired kid with that teen idol look. They told me his name was Billy or something; could be mistaken. Anyway they might not jump up and play NOW but the song remains the same. Gambling spawned them and gave them the tools for their rise.

Pool's difficulties lie in its difficulties. It doesn't help either, that those who may have carried the tradition have been subverted by the instant gratification on their phones.
There won't be any corporate empowerment for such a loser either. That it is a natural gambling medium is why it's still around.

JazzyJeff87 · Mar 23, 2020

Gambling doesn’t really have anything to do with pools popularity as a “sport”...it’s an awesome game but it is not very interesting to casual viewers and that is the bottom line. There is no way around that at all, ever. Some other countries have a better history with the game and they take it a little more seriously. It’s in the SEA games. But in the US there is no social stigma in not liking pool like there is for football, base, and basket. So people don’t feel the need to keep up with what’s going on so they can fit in.

Pool is a small thing that will remain fairly small forever, if we’re lucky and fight to keep it alive like it is now, otherwise it will go the way of lawn darts.

trentfromtoledo · Mar 23, 2020

JazzyJeff87 said:
Pool is a small thing that will remain fairly small forever, if we’re lucky and fight to keep it alive like it is now, otherwise it will go the way of lawn darts.

I am very grateful to have my small part in the Pool Industry and I love to PLAY!
I think it will become an Olympic Sport some day!

TFT

MitchAlsup · Mar 23, 2020

Fatboy said:
Read the Kelly criterion about gambling. The math genius’s and actuaries have it down cold. I know a few who are degen gamblers.

I agree that someone who has fully mastered statistics can use this skill to their advantage.

But if you have less that a full mastery of statistics, you understand that you are the pigeon in the game.

HawaiianEye · Mar 23, 2020

jay helfert said:
You already know that we are cut from the same cloth. I could watch a guy play one rack and know whether or not I could beat him. After that the rest was all a formality. :grin:

Same here.

I used to like to walk into places where a ring game was going on and watch for a little while to see which, if any, of them could actually "play".

Eventually, I would put a quarter on the table or challenge and get into the game. I, usually, wound up with most of everyone's money. Then, one of them may decide to play one-on-one and I'd get his money and whatever money he'd won in the ring game, too.

Even when we played for .25 cents on the 5 and .50 cents on the 9, I'd sometimes come out with more than $100-200 in a day from just those little ring games.

DynoDan · Mar 23, 2020

HawaiianEye said:
Same here.

I used to like to walk into places where a ring game was going on and watch for a little while to see which, if any, of them could actually "play".

Eventually, I would put a quarter on the table or challenge and get into the game. I, usually, wound up with most of everyone's money. Then, one of them may decide to play one-on-one and I'd get his money and whatever money he'd won in the ring game, too.

Even when we played for .25 cents on the 5 and .50 cents on the 9, I'd sometimes come out with more than $100-200 in a day from just those little ring games.

Which likely inspired most of those ring players to practice more!
Face it, counting your money after the game is over, is just another way of keeping score. Nobody with any brains who goes to a casino (many to choose from nowadays) expects to beat the house odds in the long run, and small-stakes social gambling on pool games among relative equals is a lot more fun than pissing your $ away playing craps or roulette.

Fatboy · Mar 23, 2020

straightline said:
I met Archer in the 90s, he was using that white Scorpion. I thought it was all ivory lol. He was pretty much like all the top players; best foot forward, amicable...

he gambles too

:smile:

He’s a great guy

Gambling

from way back when

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