How Many Aiming Systems Do You Use

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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I use no aiming systems.

Lou Figueroa

Must be something; edge to edge, whole ball to whole ball. You've got to aim at something. Maybe not a "system" but you have to aim at a ball. You might not even be aware of it like I wasn't either. Do you have a table at home?
 
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bbb

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How Many Aiming Systems Do You Use
lou
just curious
why do you want to know??

I use no aiming systems.

Lou Figueroa

my post got misinterpreted by you because of the way it was written
i posted the title of your thread
not asking you that question but
i am curious why do you lou want to know how many aiming systems WE (individually ) know ?
ie whats the purpose of the survey?
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
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.......

I find it hard to believe nobody uses the diamond system to kick ? I mean, for a one rail kick, it's almost impossible not to be accurate..... as long as your speed is good.

I'm with Lou on this one. May have used a 2 or 3-rail system a few times, but once you kick enough 2 and 3 rails you basically just know where to aim by looking at the shot and visualizing the cb's path.
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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I'm with Lou on this one. May have used a 2 or 3-rail system a few times, but once you kick enough 2 and 3 rails you basically just know where to aim by looking at the shot and visualizing the cb's path.

Once someone knows the 2-4, and 3-5 rail system, one rails, two rails, etc all become easier. Almost every ball on the table can be hit with these rail systems. I work on these weekly.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
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I'm not sure but I feel this got buried in the other thread so I'd like to try again here:

It seems like everyone knows around a half dozen aiming systems, give tor take, well enough to pass on to someone else. So the next logical questions Is: how many of these systems to you actually use shot-to-shot, day-in-day-out?

Me, I know half a dozen systems and use... none of them -- zippo. I also know a few kicking systems but when I have to go one or three rails I use exactly: zero. (OK, one time I used the Spot on the Wall.) I have books, and videos, and DVDS with huge steaming piles of aiming systems... but I use none. As I've oft said, I just see the shot and shoot the shot.

I use no systems though I have the knowledge and resources to do so if wanted. How 'bout you?

Lou Figueroa
I don't use any aiming systems, but I do look at the same things for each shot (CB contact point & where my stick is pointed in relation to it).

I think my subconscious probably "looks at" other things too, but I can't know for sure what they may be or how they're processed to arrive at the "Eureka!" moment.

pj
chgo
 

bbb

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I don't use any aiming systems, but I do look at the same things for each shot (CB contact point & where my stick is pointed in relation to it).

I think my subconscious probably "looks at" other things too, but I can't know for sure what they may be or how they're processed to arrive at the "Eureka!" moment.

pj
chgo

isnt that a system?
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I don't use any aiming systems, but I do look at the same things for each shot (CB contact point & where my stick is pointed in relation to it).

I think my subconscious probably "looks at" other things too, but I can't know for sure what they may be or how they're processed to arrive at the "Eureka!" moment.

pj
chgo

isnt that a system?
A one-step system? If you insist...

I think of it as simply "taking note" of the most specific data available. Like I said, I don't consciously do anything with the info, just pass it along to my invisible computer.

Although... I think that's approximately what happens with even the most elaborate systems - they're just different ways of gathering shotpic data for our subconscious computers to use. I think the more elaborate ones are that way in order to give more confidence in that "handoff".

pj <- probly hear from the systemizers about that last bit...
chgo
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"The proof is in the pudding" grandma said.

CTE PRO-ONE Every shot
That must be a darn good one.
Tyler Styer was trained by Stan Shuffett with CTE Pro1 and Tyler is hitting 'em pretty good now in that Mosconi Cup thing.
I need to work more on my CTE Pro 1. I'd love to be able to hit 'em that good under all that pressure.
:thumbup2:
 
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lfigueroa

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Must be something; edge to edge, whole ball to whole ball. You've got to aim at something. Maybe not a "system" but you have to aim at a ball. You might not even be aware of it like I wasn't either. Do you have a table at home?


Nope.

I tried to explain it in the udder thread:

Here's my bestest explanation, and if anyone doesn't buy it they can go... well, you know: The whole focus of my pool playing life, for decades now, has been to have a very precise, very repeatable PSR. When I approach a shot, I typically stand in the same spot in relation to the balls. I look at the shot, the whole shot, and decide what I want to do. I don't look at contact points or nuthin'. If I look at anything at all, I tend to check where I want the CB to land. This takes but a moment unless it's a touchy 1pocket situation.

Once I've made up my mind about what I want to do I descend into shooting position executing my PSR. And what I think happens is that my body unfolds itself using my PSR but in a manner that puts my bridge hand and the rest of my body in perfect position to shoot the shot the way I have decided to shoot it. Once I'm in shooting position the only things I'm checking are my speed during one or two warm up strokes and perhaps making a minute adjustment to where I'm hitting the CB. I see the OB, I see the CB, and I shoot the shot.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
my post got misinterpreted by you because of the way it was written
i posted the title of your thread
not asking you that question but
i am curious why do you lou want to know how many aiming systems WE (individually ) know ?
ie whats the purpose of the survey?


To drive you nuts.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Once someone knows the 2-4, and 3-5 rail system, one rails, two rails, etc all become easier. Almost every ball on the table can be hit with these rail systems. I work on these weekly.


Feel is better than a system.

Becaaaaause you have to instantaneously adapt each shot to the specific location of the balls and the condition of the table. Robert Byrnes's "McGoorty The Story of a Billiard Bum"" is one of the great books on billiards. Here's a story from it on Willie Hoppe:

#####
“In Hoppe’s book on how to play billiards is a long section on the diamond system, charts showing how to count the spots on the rails and figure out where to aim by using arithmetic. Now that is a joke, because he was not a system player. I went out to the Navy Pier one morning during the 1950 tournament to practice and there was Hoppe all alone in the hall. He had the book open and was shooting shots from the diagrams... trying out the system. He looked up at me and said, “You know, Dan, it works. But you need a perfect stroke.’

Those charts were put in the book by Bryon Schoeman and a lot of them are haywire. Sometimes one of my students will show me the book and say, ‘Look at this McGoorty. Hoppe says you can hit the rail here and end up there.’

‘My boy,’ I say, ‘it can’t be done. Those charts are just pretty pictures.’

Not only did Hoppe not use the diamond system, he had nothing to do with developing it. That was done by Copulus, Layton, and Clarence Jackson.

Guys like Hoppe, Cochran, and Schaefer, they knew the table so well, all the angles, all the returns, they didn’t need to use any system. They could get four out of two by elevating the cue a little and putting a touch of masse on the ball. The system? What system? f*ck the system.’”
#####

Lou Figueroa
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Feel is better than a system.

Becaaaaause you have to instantaneously adapt each shot to the specific location of the balls and the condition of the table. Robert Byrnes's "McGoorty The Story of a Billiard Bum"" is one of the great books on billiards. Here's a story from it on Willie Hoppe:

#####
“In Hoppe’s book on how to play billiards is a long section on the diamond system, charts showing how to count the spots on the rails and figure out where to aim by using arithmetic. Now that is a joke, because he was not a system player. I went out to the Navy Pier one morning during the 1950 tournament to practice and there was Hoppe all alone in the hall. He had the book open and was shooting shots from the diagrams... trying out the system. He looked up at me and said, “You know, Dan, it works. But you need a perfect stroke.’

Those charts were put in the book by Bryon Schoeman and a lot of them are haywire. Sometimes one of my students will show me the book and say, ‘Look at this McGoorty. Hoppe says you can hit the rail here and end up there.’

‘My boy,’ I say, ‘it can’t be done. Those charts are just pretty pictures.’

Not only did Hoppe not use the diamond system, he had nothing to do with developing it. That was done by Copulus, Layton, and Clarence Jackson.

Guys like Hoppe, Cochran, and Schaefer, they knew the table so well, all the angles, all the returns, they didn’t need to use any system. They could get four out of two by elevating the cue a little and putting a touch of masse on the ball. The system? What system? f*ck the system.’”
#####

Lou Figueroa

You are correct with the masters, they don't need systems. But, someone trying to get better can take the 2-4, 3-5 rail systems by RD and actually learn to make the balls or get a safety as he does, instead of trying to hit the ball. Good practice makes better play. It's all automatic for him. He approaches the table a different way for the 2-4, or the 3-5 rail system. His body knows the angles and aligns to it. Amazing to watch a master's master. I love going to him because I'm convinced he is the best. For me, it's like taking acoustic guitar lessons from Tommy Ernmanuel. How many sports can you go to the best? Try to take a golf lesson from Butch Harmon. You'd better bring $2-3,000 for a morning. Pool might be the only sport where we can afford lessons from the best. None of them are rich.
 
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bbb

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lou
how do you know that hoppe didnt use his system?
you are mistaken if you dont believe many pro pocket billiard players use systems for kicking
just like many 3 cushion players do to make "bank"shot and other 3 cushion billiards
to say systems are not used by elite players is ridiculous and not true
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are correct with the masters, they don't need systems. But, someone trying to get better can take the 2-4, 3-5 rail systems by RD and actually learn to make the balls or get a safety as he does, instead of trying to hit the ball. Good practice makes better play. It's all automatic for him. He approaches the table a different way for the 2-4, or the 3-5 rail system. His body knows the angles and aligns to it. Amazing to watch a master's master. I love going to him because I'm convinced he is the best. For me, it's like taking acoustic guitar lessons from Tommy Ernmanuel. How many sports can you go to the best? Try to take a golf lesson from Butch Harmon. You'd better bring $2-3,000 for a morning. Pool might be the only sport where we can afford lessons from the best. None of them are rich.


I wasn't talking about just hitting the ball.

I play 1pocket and you need to be able to kick precisely to get safe, one, two, three, and even four rails. You just practice them until you know how the ball will come off the rails. It's not rocket science.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
lou
how do you know that hoppe didnt use his system?
you are mistaken if you dont believe many pro pocket billiard players use systems for kicking
just like many 3 cushion players do to make "bank"shot and other 3 cushion billiards
to say systems are not used by elite players is ridiculous and not true


I quoted a passage from a book by Robert Byrne, who knew a thing or three about 3C, in which he quotes a first-hand account by one of Hoppe's contemporaries.

Here you've got the world champion, who put out a book, "Billiards As it should be played" replete with huge steaming piles of system diagrams, and by this account, he wasn't a system player. It's the same with guys saying, "Look, Player X uses System Y."

Well, maybe he doesn't.

In this and the other thread, you have folks saying they know half a dozen systems well enough to teach someone. But in real life, they use no system or perhaps one of a half dozen they know. So once again, when you have folks saying, "Player X uses System Z" you should consume that news with a nice big nugget of salt.

Lou Figueroa
 

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
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I wasn't talking about just hitting the ball.

I play 1pocket and you need to be able to kick precisely to get safe, one, two, three, and even four rails. You just practice them until you know how the ball will come off the rails. It's not rocket science.

Lou Figueroa

I'll leave it this way; No matter if you are the best in the world, seeing a master teacher will do a lot of good. Most pool players just do not see it that way and sad to say, most are broke anyway, and that's too bad. Beautiful sport though. Those of us that can afford lessons should support the masters that teach.
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
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lou
how do you know that hoppe didnt use his system?
you are mistaken if you dont believe many pro pocket billiard players use systems for kicking
just like many 3 cushion players do to make "bank"shot and other 3 cushion billiards
to say systems are not used by elite players is ridiculous and not true
Pardner, you may as well be trying to get Duckie to admit there IS such a thing as a half-ball hit. You're spinning your wheels.
I say that anytime you hear a pool shooter say that systems don't work or aren't used by first rate top action players or that they themselves "just see the shot and shoot it"..........you should consume that news also with a nice big nugget of salt.
:thumbup:
 
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