CJ Wiley vs Dennis Orcollo

Poolplaya9

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
Just curious if Fargo ratings for any given match, when figuring the odds between two players, gives any consideration for one of the players playing in their "home pool room" and playing on their "regular table". Just like any sporting event in which a spread is given, seems like the home field advantage ought to be worth something as far as an adjustment in the spread as opposed to if the match is playing on neutral turf? A pool matchup should be no different.
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Since FargoRate includes all non-handicapped 8, 9, and 10 ball matches that they are aware of, the rating is essentially your average play through a variety of conditions. There will always be things like home room advantage, or who has been hitting more balls lately, or who has been feeling more confident lately, or who is getting over the flu, or who just had a big fight or a break up with their significant other, etc, that can have some affect on whether a player plays above or below their average level in a particular match. You have to use your knowledge of these types of things to help predict if each player is likely to play above, below, or on par with their average level of play, but FargoRate gives you their accurate average.
 
S

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
Just curious if Fargo ratings for any given match, when figuring the odds between two players, gives any consideration for one of the players playing in their "home pool room" and playing on their "regular table". Just like any sporting event in which a spread is given, seems like the home field advantage ought to be worth something as far as an adjustment in the spread as opposed to if the match is playing on neutral turf? A pool matchup should be no different.
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Home field advantage is taken into account for the odds of who will win, lose or draw. How good the team is - it’s the rating that counts, all factors already taken account of.
 
K

King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What??

Ak Guy said:
I think the U.S. will always be behind most countries when it comes to pool. The main reason is most folks in the U.S.are out making a living and making a lot more money year after year, building a retirement and having an insurance plan.

Thousands of U.S. citizens make serious bucks in all the major league sports and golf and even darts and bass fishing.

We are a rich country and most of us prosper because we have a plan. Most of us would rather do tat then trying to make a living playing pool.

The Philippine's has never really got a thriving economy going on their own. Not sure why that is, lots of smart folks there, go figure.
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What Pool players in this country have an insurance plan, retirement or are building anything year after year? Is that why we cant win the Mosconi Cup, because the poor Europeans have so much time on their hands because they cant find real work?
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
Just curious if Fargo ratings for any given match, when figuring the odds between two players, gives any consideration for one of the players playing in their "home pool room" and playing on their "regular table". Just like any sporting event in which a spread is given, seems like the home field advantage ought to be worth something as far as an adjustment in the spread as opposed to if the match is playing on neutral turf? A pool matchup should be no different.
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I honestly think there is no such thing, it's an excuse.
Jason
 
freds

freds

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Then you dont understand how goodly the top pros play, compared to the also-rans.

I saw this firsthand last weekend - watched Dechaine playing a guy 9 ball, giving up the breaks and wild 6,7,8. In about 20 games, Joe Shmoe had I think 2 shots at the 6, and made 1.

The guy was no star, but not completely helpless.
 
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Black-Balled

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
freds said:
Then you dont understand how goodly the top pros play, compared to the also-rans.

I saw this firsthand last weekend - watched Dechaine playing a guy 9 ball, giving up the breaks and wild 6,7,8. In about 20 games, Joe Shmoe had I think 2 shots at the 6, and made 1.

The guy was no star, but not completely helpless.
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Ok...then. you wanna play another set with the 5 spotted too? How bout the 6,7,8,9 and the last 4?
 
freds

freds

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Black-Balled said:
Ok...then. you wanna play another set with the 5 spotted too? How bout the 6,7,8,9 and the last 4?
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No need, they were playing by the game and he Would Not Quit, still going when I left.
(And MD sure seemed like a very pleasant cheerful fellow to me. :wink: )
 
Nine ... corner

Nine ... corner

BANNED
Silver Member
jasonlaus said:
If you guys think CJ is helpless I dont know what to tell you.

Saw him play a week or so ago(on a BB) and he was running out like he never quit playing.

CJ was a stone cold killer back in the day especially gambling. I dont think he's gonna put himself in a game he CAN'T win.

Jason
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:thumbup: I agree 100%. CJ was a regular contributor to this forum until the trolls finally chased him off. Too bad because then we could have asked him directly about this match.
 
N

nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nine ... corner said:
:thumbup: I agree 100%. CJ was a regular contributor to this forum until the trolls finally chased him off. Too bad because then we could have asked him directly about this match.
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I am sure CJ thinks he can win or he would not be playing.

Like most 10 ball matches this will come down to who is breaking better. CJ can run out most 10 ball racks (especially to the 7) where he has the first open shot.

He played Efren on a brutal table several months back and lost 15-12. That match could have easily gone the other way. Granted Efren doesn't play as well as Dennis these days, but they were playing even.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
parvus1202 said:
CJ is a pro and get the 7? Are US pro way below the level of Asian pros? If a pro is getting that handicap then he should not be called a pro but semi or top level amatuer.
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Gambling is the real world....some pros are better than others.
...do you think # 150 golfer on the PGA tour would play # 1 for the cash even?


Why is this posted from another language?...Bosnian, I believe.
 
P

parvus1202

Suspected hacked account
Silver Member
Poolplaya9 said:
CJ is a more of a long retired pro who still occasionally competes when the mood strikes him. As for whether the US pros are that far below the Asian pros the answer is many are and some aren't depending on exactly which US and Asian pros you are talking about, but on the whole the US is quite a bit behind on average if comparing to Taiwan, Philippines, and China (and also a good bit behind Europe too for that matter).
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Ah ok. So this CJ Wiley was a pro during the time of Reyes? I am not belittling CJ, if he was a pro during Reyes time then he must be good duing those times. I just thought that he is a pro touring at Dennis generation. Good luck to CJ, Dennis is toxic to anybody. CJ must have a very good immune system to detoxify Dennis.
 
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W

wahcheck

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not Hurting

Obviously, CJ is not the favorite here. However, even if CJ is putting up $5K
himself, I think he can afford it.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
At one time about twenty years ago, CJ was one of the best 9-Ball players on Earth. I can remember him chasing Efren all over the country and playing for high stakes. CJ got the best of it too. Say what you want, but CJ is a thoroughbred pool player. True, he has preoccupied himself the last 15-20 years with his business interests, but that doesn't mean he's forgotten how to play 9-Ball.

I expect to see a good match and I agree the seven ball may not be much of a spot for Dennis to give up. Although CJ has started playing in regional events in the last year or so, he's been pretty much out of the competitive loop with the best players. For that reason I still have to make Dennis the favorite to win this match, especially if there are no prior 'deals' made on how the money will be split. If the 5k is really on the line, I like Dennis all the way.
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Dave714 said:
Are you kidding me. CJ is definitely playing with his on money. If anyone is not playing with their on money it's DO
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You know that for a fact that CJ is bettin' his own $$? I predict both sides of this are getting staked. I'm going down to sweat it.
 
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