Jump Shots are Fun...How would you play this?

ajohnson13 · Jun 18, 2009

Situation:

$5 8-ball Bar Tournament. 8 foot bar box. Race to 2 on the winners 1 on the losers. Final match. Final game. My opponent plays safe to leave me with the layout shown, I am shooting stripes:

CueTable Help

I successfully make the jump shot on the 12 and fail to hold the cue ball to where I could possible make a cut or bank shot on the 8. Resulting layout shown on page 2. My opponent (good friend and fellow member here on AZ) starts egging me on to make the jump shot on the 8, in which I was considering, but knew it was highly unlikely to make the shot and good chance of losing right there.

I decided it was all in good fun and I wanted to try the jump on the 8. I have a good jump shot, but that is a precision shot. I gave myself 1 in 20 odds to make it. I ended up jumping too far and the cueball went off the table resulting in a loss of game. My opponent gave me one more chance to try it again, and on the second try I jumped over the 8 and right in the side pocket.

My opponent then attempted the shot just for fun, and he hit the top of the 8, which went in the side, but the CB wend flying off the table.

Any other options I should have considered? All in all it was fun, and my opponent bought me another beer for good measure.

Randy9Ball · Jun 18, 2009

I would have gone for a two rail kick (because I kick better than I jump) to make the 12 rather than jump. That way, I have a better chance of getting a shot on the 8. It's too difficult to get a shot on the 8 jumping with the layout shown. Just my two cents.

poolplayer2093 · Jun 18, 2009

you should have kicked at your ball 2 rails. the odds of you getting a shot on the 8 are higher that way.

no real way to jump that and keep the cb on the table with any amount of control. you have to kick 1 rail at the 8 and try to cut it in. or tie one of his ball sup

Rethunk · Jun 18, 2009

Trying to jump across the side of the table, over a ball, and onto a ball (the 8) close to the pocket and close to the obstructing ball is risky to say the least.The cue ball would be coming down at a fairly steep angle to avoid the obstructing ball. Could someone hit it "just right" and make it? Probably. But there are more ways for the shot to go wrong that for it to go right.

Like Randy9Ball, I probably would've gone for the two-rail kick, or possibly even tried to go rail first with enough right English to touch the 8. I haven't tried many shots like this on a bar table.

If it isn't a loss of game in your tournament rules to make an intentional foul when you're shooting the 8-ball, you could push one of your opponent's/friend's balls into another and hope he messes up the runout. For example, push the 7 up against the 5 and 6.

Neil · Jun 18, 2009

...............

ajohnson13 · Jun 18, 2009

Rethunk said:
Trying to jump across the side of the table, over a ball, and onto a ball (the 8) close to the pocket and close to the obstructing ball is risky to say the least.The cue ball would be coming down at a fairly steep angle to avoid the obstructing ball. Could someone hit it "just right" and make it? Probably. But there are more ways for the shot to go wrong that for it to go right.

I completely agree with this, however, at that point I felt like just having fun and going for it. Besides I was firing in jump shots pretty good last night. Under different circumstances I probalby would have tried a one rail kick off the foot rail to pocket the 8 in the side, or at least make a good hit and make him run out.

Thanks for the reply.

ajohnson13 · Jun 18, 2009

DoubleD said:
You played it right, knowing your skill set and that of your opponent. I'd have bet against you seeing the table again if your opponent got up.

Great playing last night, tho.

dld

Thanks DD. I would have bet against me too, if I was watching me try this. Like I said i gave myself 1 in 20 to make it. It's always good to shoot with you. You should come out for some 9 ball at the PH tonight.

mia · Jun 18, 2009

poolplayer2093 said:
you should have kicked at your ball 2 rails. the odds of you getting a shot on the 8 are higher that way.

no real way to jump that and keep the cb on the table with any amount of control. you have to kick 1 rail at the 8 and try to cut it in. or tie one of his ball sup

I agree. Playing the jump on the 12 means you're sacrificing position on the 8... unless you are an experienced jumper. In which case, you could jump with a slight draw and leave yourself in good shape for the 8. Still, the kick on the 12 seems like a safer bet.

Seeing as how you played the jump and ended up where you did, I would play a one rail kick on the 8 just to make a hit. The unfortunate part is, you'd have to give it a little umph to get something to hit a rail. But the results will be a LOT better than losing the game on a table foul.

poolplayer2093 · Jun 18, 2009

mia said:
I agree. Playing the jump on the 12 means you're sacrificing position on the 8... unless you are an experienced jumper. In which case, you could jump with a slight draw and leave yourself in good shape for the 8. Still, the kick on the 12 seems like a safer bet.

Seeing as how you played the jump and ended up where you did, I would play a one rail kick on the 8 just to make a hit. The unfortunate part is, you'd have to give it a little umph to get something to hit a rail. But the results will be a LOT better than losing the game on a table foul.

my buddy mark makes kick shots like those so much it's freaky!

dabarbr · Jun 18, 2009

This is a very difficult situation to be in but not hopeless. Regardless of which shot you attempt on the twelve it does not guarantee a makable shot on the eight. The eight appears to only have the side pocket available but only as a deep cut.

The jump shot could leave you hooked like it did which would be disastrous and most likely a sure loss of game. The masse that Neil suggests is a viable option to assure that you can at least see the eight after pocketing the twelve in the side. Being able to see the eight will allow you to position it to a location that will at least put pressure on your opponent and may result on you getting another shot, depending on their skill level.

There is also the option of a one rail kick from the long rail near the side pocket with a little bit of right english to to reverse the cue ball but this also positions the cue ball away from the eight ball.

The best option IMO is the one rail kick from the short rail to the twelve. This takes the cue ball in the direction of the eight and gives more opportunities for the eight and a possible win without having to turn the table over.

tommywhsl1 · Jun 18, 2009

what to do

i think you played it right depending on your skills. the jump is not hard and depending on table speed, type of jump cue, etc. it would not appear to be tremendousily difficult to end up with a good shot at the eight. Massing the cue is an opition to insure a good hit i think, but to make to ball and hold shape will require a percise speed and ball control. Kicking one rail will insure a good hit but to make the ball?? Probably not! all things considered the jump was the way to go at the stripe ball and kick to make a good hit at the eight if you don't manage to hold shape

RShellhouse · Jun 18, 2009

Interestingly enough....

I would have shaved the 7 ball into the 5 and carom into the 2 driving it into the rail thereby making the 7-5 a mess and moving the 2 to a rail leaving a multiple problem situation where even if they used the ball in hand to fix one the run out would be problematic...

but thats just me....

R

Celtic · Jun 18, 2009

I would have kicked the 12 in the side, the shape is natural and making that kick is fairly simple as far as kicks go.

dabarbr · Jun 18, 2009

Celtic said:
I would have kicked the 12 in the side, the shape is natural and making that kick is fairly simple as far as kicks go.

This would also be my choice. I like the cue ball going to the eight after making the twelve. I believe anything else is low percentage for a win. I don't like making the twelve and have the cue ball going away from the eight. Not winning from here against a fairly decent player is most likely a loss.

Irish634 · Jun 18, 2009

Simple really, shoot it Eric Yow style! :smile:

CueTable Help

Seriously though, I like the two rail approach as well for possible position on the 8.

okinawa77 · Jun 18, 2009

I agree

Neil said:
I think that you pretty much have to go for it. Being the last game, I don't like giving up ball in hand and hoping he screws up when I still have several viable options.I'd rather go down swinging if I'm going down.

That said, I think my first option to be a slight masse' around the 3. It really doesn't require much curve at all, and you can hold the cb around for a shot on the 8 in the side. My second option would be a one rail kick off the short rail. A 2 rail kick and you are basically back-cutting the 12, and probably won't have a shot on the 8. The one rail kick would be just hard enough to make it, and no harder.

I agree with Neil. The masse is probably the best shot to get shape on the 8. The kicks are fine for pocketing the 12, but have a higher probability of getting bad shape on the 8, in comparison with the masse.

Patrick Johnson · Jun 19, 2009

I'd jump because making the 12 is the highest priority - just hitting it is probably a loss of game. In order of my preference:

1. Jump (best chance to make the 12)
2. One rail kick (probably hit, less likely to make)
3. Masse (probably hit, less likely to make)

The choice between one rail kick and masse depends on your personal skill with each.

I don't know why you'd consider a two rail kick when a considerably more precise one rail kick is available.

pj
chgo

poolplayer2093 · Jun 21, 2009

Irish634 said:
Simple really, shoot it Eric Yow style! :smile:

CueTable Help

Seriously though, I like the two rail approach as well for possible position on the 8.

i'm cue table retarded so i'll just tell you how i'd hope to make the shot. i'd hope to make the 12 in the side off the 8. the 8 hitting the 4 thick should hold it in place near the side

JB Cases · Jun 21, 2009

You could jump the 8 in and keep the cue ball on the table. You need to jump with a lot of draw and land just on the edge of the 8. I used to do shots like this all the time in my exhibitions to show off the control that is possible with the jump cue with a little practice.

I used to call it the cluster***k shot and it was one that everyone found to be quite amazing. In fact it's quite easy when you have practiced enough to be able to judge distance and trajectory accurately.

As for what I would have done in your diagram; I would have jumped the 12 in with right english and killed the cueball off the rail so that it came out just enough for shape on the eight. If I got hooked again then I would have jumped the 8 in.

If the jump shot were not viable there then I would have tried to kick the 12 two rails and cut it into the side so that the cueball would carom into the one and hopefully leave me a shot on the 8. I wouldn't try to kick it one rail because then if I did make it I wouldn't clear the one out and the cueball would be downtable with not even a slim chance to make it.

ALLENJK · Jun 21, 2009

Right English

I just set this shot up as close as I could to the diagram show. I used rt english 3 times with almost the same result each time. The cue ball came back and hit either the 2 or the 3 with perfect shape on the 8.

Jump Shots are Fun...How would you play this?

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