eye patterns
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
lol!
Not an attack now against you DrCue s Protege:
You can be sure, that the most here also have read, or heard this stuff from several People.
What is fact: you could also shoot blindly- with closed eyes, once you aligned perfectly for your shot. NO doubt about that.
What is also fact: Several world class pro s- also world class snooker Players would have S W O R N that they look always "cueball last" --- and with a superb high Speed cam have been "caught" that the eyes were flipping over to object ball while finally Shooting. (and that s not just a single example Buddy).
Of course there are for very sure also People who look at cueball last--- so we could use for very sure the advice: "Use what works for you best".
I can just say from my expirience that i have had til now exactly 2 People, who have been lookin cueball last-- but also These two were flipping "while" Shooting towards target (ob or rail). So even here i m unsure, if this would be cb or ob last
Once you really have a really rocksolid PEP-- one thing is sure: you trust your stroke- and that s what it s all about. The very most error, why people come up during stroke is a terrible PEP....because not really trusting their stroke.
just my 2 Cents- and just from my personal expirience.
take care and happy new year
(sorry for stupid auto-correction mistakes -_- )
I don't agree with you on this Randy. 100% of Instructors don't preach and teach this.
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...and when kicking, to ensure that you're extremely accurate on the CB (same reason as the other shots). Great post Jim! :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Wow, Mike ...and you wonder why I won't come back and work with you again. Your "I'm right, and you're wrong" attitude is just part of the reason why you don't seem to move the needle much...over the 20+ years you've been "trying". In the end, you're correct about 'whatever works' for the player. We're just saying that OB last works better for more players than not. All we can do is try to help "open-minded" players who are struggling with improving, have 'plateaued' at a certain level (which may be quite high), or those that are inconsistent from day to day, or week to week. Nothing is an "end-all, be-all" for everyone. There are, however, certain techniques that seem to be more successful overall for many players...these are what we teach.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
...and you wonder why I won't come back and work with you again. Your "I'm right, and you're wrong" attitude is just part of the reason why you don't seem to move the needle much...over the 20+ years you've been "trying". In the end, you're correct about 'whatever works' for the player. We're just saying that OB last works better for more players than not. All we can do is try to help "open-minded" players who are struggling with improving, have 'plateaued' at a certain level (which may be quite high), or those that are inconsistent from day to day, or week to week. Nothing is an "end-all, be-all" for everyone. There are, however, certain techniques that seem to be more successful overall for many players...these are what we teach. Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Ingo...The bold part is the ultimate truth! To become the poolplayer you want to be...you MUST learn to have complete trust in your stroke. This includes accuracy, speed control, and the ability to repeat, under the pressure of competition! :thumbup:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Wow, Mike
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I completely agree with what you said here Scott.
But Randy's comment was "all - ALL - instructors are in agreement" and that is simply not true. I could name names here but I am not going to start a war.
And I still want you to come back and see if you can help me. But if you are going to tell me that I:
1) HAVE to look at the OB last
2) HAVE to keep that elbow up and pinned
3) HAVE to do those Mother Drills to improve
then I agree, it would be a waste of time. Other than that, I am quite willing to listen with an open mind.
Think about it old buddy, we'd probably have a good time and some laughs together. I'll even take you back down to the amish restaurant and buy your lunch or supper.
r/Mike
Mike...To be fair, Randy was likely talking about professional instructors...not pro players who give lessons (and, as Ratta pointed out, even many pros don't really know what they do...or do something different than they think they do...but you can't fool high speed video, analyzed in slow motion or frame by frame advance). Yes, comments like "all" or "none", just like the words "always" and "never" really aren't appropriate. That said, you 'calling out' the best instructor in the USA (no offense to my friend Robin Dreyer...and he would say the same) and telling him he's "absolutely wrong" is bad form, to say the least (especially since you don't even know Randy, nor have you ever got any instruction from him).
Randy taught me one important thing more than 20 years ago. He said: "there are two kinds of students you will encounter...those that want to learn; and those that want to prove you wrong". He was correct then...and he's still correct!
Are there other things I could teach you, without adhering to the 3 points you mentioned? Certainly...a LOT of things! Would you be able to take advantage of that information (and master it to the point of being able to "bring it" on demand, under pressure, in ONE TRY)? Maybe...and that's a big maybe. No matter how unconventional a pro player's routine is...the bottom line is it's THEIR routine, and they have mastered it over years and years of using it, in every possible situation. 99.9% of us will never achieve that level of consistency, for many reasons. The last thing is finances...you'd have to commit to spending a whole day with me! Add to that, you would have exactly one day where I could come see you anytime in the next several months. That day would be Sunday, January 28, immediately after the DCC ends. I also believe we could have a good time together...as long as you don't get too down on yourself! The ball is your court buddy! :grin:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Randy taught me one important thing more than 20 years ago. He said: "there are two kinds of students you will encounter...those that want to learn; and those that want to prove you wrong". He was correct then...and he's still correct!
Are there other things I could teach you, without adhering to the 3 points you mentioned? Certainly...a LOT of things! Would you be able to take advantage of that information (and master it to the point of being able to "bring it" on demand, under pressure, in ONE TRY)? Maybe...and that's a big maybe. No matter how unconventional a pro player's routine is...the bottom line is it's THEIR routine, and they have mastered it over years and years of using it, in every possible situation. 99.9% of us will never achieve that level of consistency, for many reasons. The last thing is finances...you'd have to commit to spending a whole day with me! Add to that, you would have exactly one day where I could come see you anytime in the next several months. That day would be Sunday, January 28, immediately after the DCC ends. I also believe we could have a good time together...as long as you don't get too down on yourself! The ball is your court buddy! :grin:
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Page one, post three, Randy is very clear about this eye pattern. "Not very natural"
Maybe it's an old dog and new tricks thing. In my case yeah, I got tired of hearing Scott say "pause, pause ya gotta stop the swing. And bring it home, you have to finish.
Then about two years ago Randy gave me a whole day just on off set aiming. None of that really took. I guess I'm just a fraction guy. But the funny thing is the more I did those mother drills and really paid attention to the missing set and finish the better my stroke became. And all of a sudden the aiming took care of itself.
I'm still not where I want to be, but it's coming along. Old dogs learn slow.
Get unstuck from your ego and listen to these guys.
Maybe it's an old dog and new tricks thing. In my case yeah, I got tired of hearing Scott say "pause, pause ya gotta stop the swing. And bring it home, you have to finish.
Then about two years ago Randy gave me a whole day just on off set aiming. None of that really took. I guess I'm just a fraction guy. But the funny thing is the more I did those mother drills and really paid attention to the missing set and finish the better my stroke became. And all of a sudden the aiming took care of itself.
I'm still not where I want to be, but it's coming along. Old dogs learn slow.
Get unstuck from your ego and listen to these guys.
Scott,
At this point I don't feel i need you for an entire day. I think if you can help me that it wont take much more than a couple of hours. I am going to have Dave Sapolis take a look at me on video and see what he thinks and go from there. The next time you are in the Indiana area and can do the half day thing please let me know. And if you would consider doing the half day on 28 January let me know.
Thanks for your consideration.
r/Mike
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I agree with this as a good guideline.
DCP, having Scott visit would be a waste of time. Aside from the elbow moving a bit in to out on your stroke, your fundamentals are quite solid. I'm guessing you have cured the elbow flop by now. You guys have history and you just admitted you're not going to listen to several important things he's going to tell you.
It's been said to you many times, what you need is a steady dose of competition. I think you'll be surprised how solid your game is if you would spend the next year playing other people two or three times per week. More importantly, you would finally have a gauge for where your game really is.
If you're not going to go out and compete, WTF does it matter anyway? You would be the first person in the history of mankind to be able to walk into the arena at pro level by only practicing by yourself.
It's been said to you many times, what you need is a steady dose of competition. I think you'll be surprised how solid your game is if you would spend the next year playing other people two or three times per week. More importantly, you would finally have a gauge for where your game really is.
If you're not going to go out and compete, WTF does it matter anyway? You would be the first person in the history of mankind to be able to walk into the arena at pro level by only practicing by yourself.
I was rewatching Ronnie O'Sullivan v Shaun Murphy UK Snooker Championship 2018, when I saw this shot I thought of this thread. It gives a very good look at Ronnies eye pattern on this one shot.
The quality of play in this match is amazing.
https://youtu.be/OSKFOB4-Vtg?t=6143
The quality of play in this match is amazing.
https://youtu.be/OSKFOB4-Vtg?t=6143
I recently started experimenting with the following eye pattern: on the final back swing I look at the shaft concentrating on moving it in a perfect straight line. At the end of my backswing I move the eyes to OB ball, refocus and then shoot. This naturally creates longer pause between back and forward swings. Would be great to hear what Fran, Scott, Randy and other instructors think about that.
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Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
There are different (eye pattern) strokes for different folks, but it's hard to go wrong with "stare that object ball down as you assume your stance, but recognize the ball in your vision will change as you lower into the stance, so look away (at your tip and cue ball for aim would be a help) and then look back at the object ball to refresh your sighting."
Also, if you like to look at the object ball last, hold still, relaxed, and gaze at the ob for two seconds (longer than most people think two seconds takes) after you've finished your final practice stroke and before you pull back that last stroke to shoot. Quiet eyes can even lead to the dead zone concentration where you don't consciously pull the trigger for the final stroke.
Shaft aiming works for some but not for all, since many players have the head rotated in the stance so that glancing at the shaft blurs the shaft in their vision or gives a false perspective on shaft alignment. If it "works for you," great. Although if I've taken a full backswing, ferrule to fingers, I'm using the tip to focus and not the shaft, right?
But do understand that for my students, "works for you" means they are pocketing balls with ease, and when they miss, they miss just outside the pocket points and aren't spraying shots a diamond or two diamonds away from the pocket.
After looking back and forth, I prefer to switch my vision to the object ball for the last time, just before I start my final backstroke. Then I keep my eyes locked on the object ball from that point on. I don't like moving my eyes at any time during that final back and forth motion. This frees my mind up to concentrate on executing the shot, which is what I want at that point.
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I’m sort of like that Fran and for same reasons mostly.
As I drop in and my hands sliding my eyes focus into the bullseye my tips on at the cb.....
By the time my stance is done I’m set with my eyes at the intended target and they never leave. And it’s instantaneous.
All my flipping of eyes happens standing.
It’s not quite fitting into any of the textbook pep but that’s what I’ve always Had work best personally, and it’s an every time thing.....besides jumps masses’ etc of course
I think long ago I found myself too twitchy to be doing any moving when down at all besides moving my arm, I fight enough with fake sway due to ocean work.
When my tip and hand sets at the ball if it’s not in proper position then any adjustment I make while down ain’t doing me a dam big of good to begin with because then my alignment isn’t correct with the shot line I chose.
So I see no need in general personally to look at my cb again......
I know things could shift. No there is no shift, if there was shift then my proverbial panel would flip red and blocking fuel to the starter much less any fuel going to ignition.
My tip of my rifle knows exactly where it is.....right where it should be....where I left it when I froze. At the end of my Barrell h:l/l/r doesn’t matter that place is wher the hand begins and stays.
I tried putting that into words for Scott once but couldn’t explain myself at the moment as to why and how I particularly do that.
And some think one pocket is slow some of my thoughts last a year on the docket before shipping off lol completed....lurking in the background lol
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this really helped me
I have been using this eye pattern with great results. It has made my pool game so much more consistent. Thanks to all for the great advice.
I have been using this eye pattern with great results. It has made my pool game so much more consistent. Thanks to all for the great advice.