$10,000 One Pocket Challenge: Lou Figueroa vs John Barton

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUeoiUZdbMs

Now this game I will give him credit, he stole it at the end. Inside of five minutes the score was 7:0 and Lou dogged the game winning EASY shot. I was 7 to MINUS 1 and I got it back to 7:6 and I played a decent safety with two balls left and the balls split apart a little too much and I didn't think he would shoot at his hole and he nailed a 3 railer to win that game.

https://youtu.be/CUeoiUZdbMs?t=1148
 

Magyar19

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
https://youtu.be/NOk5pZQSh-k?t=7089

Lou takes his shot and freezes me to the end rail. I shoot my shot in less than one minute after Lou shot his. What you can't see is that I was NOWHERE near Dennis during this whole sequence. I simply took a little extra time to try to figure out what to do. And I thought I did good thing. Lou thought I did good thing although NOW he claims he said it was the wrong shot. No one else did.

So if THIS is the shot that convinced Lou I was being coached then I have to say that he is beyond delusional. Any competent one pocket player would have TORTURED me given the many opportunities Lou was handed. Watch the match and you can see that I threw it away. My stance and form was horrid. Looking back now I can't stand to see myself standing that way and am actually surprised that I was able to make any shots. Thanks CTE - proper aiming and shitty form only serve to result in highly inconsistent play.

Why not just hit the 8 ball full and lag the 6 to the end rail? Am I missing something?
 

JB Cases

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Silver Member
Why not just hit the 8 ball full and lag the 6 to the end rail? Am I missing something?

My thought was that because the cueball was frozen I couldn't keep it below the 8 and prevent either a cut on the 8 or a double bank on the 8. The position was pretty tough to not leave any decent shot for Lou to shoot at his hole.

The cut angle to the 8 was the problem. It laid down perfectly to prevent a full hit with speed that didn't have top english on it. Even lag speed would have allowed the cueball to travel a few inches higher than the eight from that position.

I honestly thought I was going to pull off an Efren-like move there. And if I had trapped the ball dead between the balls it might have turned out that way. But the reality is more likely that even if had gotten them frozen the way I was thinking then the escape most likely would have been pretty much the same.

When I saw that this shot was being discussed on One Pocket.org I thought that they were going to tell me how brilliant it was......wrong. :-(
 

SamShaddey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Why not just hit the 8 ball full and lag the 6 to the end rail? Am I missing something?

I personally thought that played foul was perfect nothing wrong with that shoot. It gave him a lock up and more options when he got back to the table. Can remember the next inning and video stoped. Sure does seem like a lot of armchair quarterbacking going on! John You shoot an awesome set **** any one tells you different! Most people don’t have the balls to put up that much money in a set. Respect
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Kickin" Chicken and the infamous Orville satchel full of cash!
 

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haystj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ed never told me that he saw such coaching. But Ed asked Dennis to sit somewhere else, removing someone who was sitting on my side and cheering me on.


What makes this confusing is that in the Part 4 video,,, at 20:40, after you make a great shot both Ed and Jamison mention you have your coach by your side,, someone named Riley.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
In this picture we are shaking hands AFTER a brief conversation. I asked Lou if we could bury the hatchet and be cool after this. I held up my end and he did not. This was the SECOND time he did this. The first time he approached me at Derby City and we had a drink and agreed to let it go and it was good for four years until he started in again on AZB instead of RSB, where I no longer participated.

Look, I know that I can be a real asshole in online spats. But once I make a promise to settle differences then I honor that until the other side breaks it. back in the day on RSB Rec.Sport.Billiards for those of you who are unfamiliar, Lou went off on me for recounting my day with Hal Houle. Up until that thread I had NEVER had a cross word with Lou and looked forward to his writing because he is a good writer and entertaining. I never even bothered to question any pool story he told because I was captivated.

But that all changed when he chose to label me as a religious zealot because I was excited about what Hal taught me. I didn't seek Hal out, he asked to see me through a friend in Denver, Bob Johnson. And the first thing Hal did was to show me a printout of a post I had made where I told someone who had asked about aiming that Johnny Archer aimed using tip-to-ghost ball. I had literally relayed the information from a Pool and Billiard article Johnny wrote. Hal had highlighted my words and almost screamed at me that Johnny didn't aim that way...(in the intervening years I did get the chance to speak to Johnny about it and that was a cool conversation.) So I was immediately not happy to be dragged to Denver from Loveland, an hour away, to be berated by some old kook about aiming. But, and without recounting all the details, I went ahead and listened to him as a favor to my friend and ended up being amazed by what was happening on the table with my shot making. So later I went to a tournament and showed a little to my friends and they started pocketing balls better than they were. I was really blown away and took that enthusiasm back to RSB and I was clear that I didn't know WHY it worked but the on-table results were undeniable. Lou jumped my ass and called me a religious fanatic and it went downhill from there.

So when he approached me at Derby and we buried the hatchet and essentially agreed to disagree with no animosity I was happy to do so. Then fast forward to AZB, most of us from RSB had moved to AZB because a guy named Fast Larry pretty much ruined the unmoderated RSB group with racist profane crazy posts during a long running feud with Eric Hu. (Eric had challenged Larry's claims of world records and such and Larry took that very badly and went off on Eric in vile ways. Eric then sucker punched senior citizen Larry at the Super Billiards Expo and none of us felt bad about it.)

So at AZB the topic of aiming systems and Hal came up and I recounted my story in support of Hal and what he teaching. When I tell you that I had ZERO interest in aiming systems before meeting Hal that is the absolute truth. I felt that I had aiming figured out and that it was a natural thing that didn't require any special system and so I didn't even bother to open threads talking about it. Hal changed all that and opened my eyes to new ways to get aligned to the shot that were counter-intuitive and not easy to diagram like Ghost Ball. Ghost ball was easy to diagram, easy to explain and in reality harder to execute consistently when actually used consciously. But I digress and the main point is that my pool life consisted of before Hal and after Hal because for me the bell could not be unrung on this subject and it awakened a desire to explore more. So on AZB when the topic came up I simply gave my experience with Hal and my support and wasn't looking to have beef with anyone over it. Lou however could not or would not allow that to stand on it's own and chose to start needling me again over it. For a while I tried to remain civil and cordial and looked at it as friendly ribbing. But it started to turn uglier as his comments got ever more biting towards me but also towards Stan Shuffett and others who were imparting information about the Center to Edge system, which was a more specific way to aim using Hal's methods. So we ended up bitterly arguing again and I reminded Lou that the only time we had played each other AFTER I learned how to aim from Hal, in an RSB member event in Chicago at Chris' Billiards, I won 2:1. Admittedly I got lucky when Lou stuck me up to the rack and I rousted it and a ball went in and I won that game. I ended up in the finals and Lou also ended up in the finals and we agreed to split the money instead of playing because of needing to get on the road. Everything was cool with zero beef at that event, we were all nice to each other and joking around and laughing about internet comments. But for me that victory and the victory over another vocal critic who liked to use the religious zealot label was personally important because I did use Hal's methods to aim and I credited those methods with helping me to make shots that I had previous struggled with a lot. Anyway Lou didn't like it one bit that I was rubbing in that single short set victory. And that's what eventually led to him accepting the challenge I had made to play a large set. I hadn't challenged him to a 10k match but the "backer" through a shill put that amount out there and called me a coward when I didn't immediately accept. I wasn't totally dumb and had a decent respect for anyone who could run a hundred+ balls in straight pool. But with tempers up and the barrage of taunting from the shill and others I accepted the match and we acrimoniously worked out the details.

So we played and after it was all over I asked Lou if we could NOW completely bury the beef and he agreed and then reneged a week later. To say I was disappointed would be a vast understatement. Even with all that gone before I was ok with forgiving and moving on. But then the lies started and that I could not abide by. I played my heart out and played pretty much ON heart because as everyone can see my form and decision making was really bad and inconsistent. I felt like I had taken the shot and lost and that should have been the end of when Lou shook my hand and EXPLICITY and CLEARLY agreed to end the beef. I wrote up a nice review of the match and praised him for his demeanor and conduct and for his steady play. I moved on, the money was posted and gone so I was good. Karen and I resumed our travels around the nation visiting pool rooms and billiard supply stores setting up dealers.

So when Lou came out with falsehoods and mischaracterizations it really pissed me off. Especially the accusation of getting coached. I will say this one more time, IF I had been coached then I would have drilled Lou. I am positive of that. Why? Because the shot selections and speed control would have been WAY better and reduced his opportunities considerably and caused him far more trouble with the traps he would have been in. Dennis Spears sat on my side for encouragement and he would say things like take your time, stay down, play smart etc...but we did not converse about shots and he didn't tell me how to play. And he wasn't even there for a good portion of the match.

And I was informed that Lou claimed I was being coached and I said that it was ridiculous but in the spirit of being cordial and a good host I allowed for Dennis to not be allowed to sit on my side. And that is the absolute truth. What I did not know was that the shot I referenced above was the shot that Lou thought was proof of being coached. Anyway, as I said I am completely over it and my only reason for being here now is so that Lou cannot get away with telling lies about me without rebuttal from me since I was the other half of the story. I have found through all this that a lot of Lou's stories which were so entertaining to me back in RSB time were embellished. I had people sending me their Lou stories and telling me their versions of the stories he told publicly. I had people personally coming up to me at Derby and through my travels telling me their Lou stories. Most of them didn't want to be in a public feud with him by going on the forum and contradicting him. I found out the story of why he was barred from Cue and Cushion and it was quite different than Lou's account. And that's not surprising and I will not say that Lou was lying in that instance because we all understand that stories can differ with each person's perspective. From a customer standpoint the service was bad and the owner couldn't take constructive criticism and from the owner's perspective the customer's constant demands and whining were too much to put up with. I get that. But it illustrates what happens when the audience is given only one version and that version is well told and sounds legitimate. These are things I would never have known about Lou without people voluntarily telling me their Lou stories. Did they make them up or embellish them also? I don't know and will never know. But what I do know is that when a lot of folks have similar stories from their encounters with a person then it's likely that there is a common vein.

Just like the stories here about me differ from my perspective and experience. Looking back I can see where I screwed up in the way I handled things but I also have the clarity to see that I was not the instigator most of the time. Did I occassionally throw in a barb that called back to another discussion in another thread to get a dig in when I saw an opening? Yes I did and sometimes it was just ribbing someone and sometimes it was deliberate malice based on previous interactions. I am human and make human mistakes.

But as Frank Gehry said, a healthy insecurity is essential to achieve success because as soon as you rest on your laurels you find them disintegrating beneath you. So I will admit to having an unhealthy insecurity about getting criticism for my accounts of my experiences in pool and my reactions to being defamed by random people. And when I am defamed and lied about by people whom I thought were cool then my reaction has often been very ugly. For that I sincerley apologize to everyone. Without going into boohoo sob stories let's just say that a lot of my growing up has been during my adulthood. And I want to THANK from the bottom of my heart all of you who have stepped in over the years to assist me with advice given freely that I would have possibly had in my formative years in a different situation.

That's it. This handshake meant a lot to me and I wish that Lou had honored it as much as I did.

Thank you all for reading this and hopefully it will resonate with some of you.
 

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ShootingHank

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
He no bury the hatchet and he has your so called 'soul' in that jar.

We don't know if you are shaking hands for the camera or not.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
What makes this confusing is that in the Part 4 video,,, at 20:40, after you make a great shot both Ed and Jamison mention you have your coach by your side,, someone named Riley.

I will look at it. I don't know who Riley is but Dennis Spears is a local player who is a very very strong player who helped me out for a couple hours in the days leading up to the match. I had asked Dennis to be on my side and keep me grounded. So if they were referring to him then yes he was my coach in that sense. But at no time did he tell me what to shoot.

At no time was there any sort of hiding him as claimed by Lou and others. If you all could have seen a photo of the arena this would be beyond clear. There was no column to hide behind. He was in effect my cornerman but not telling me what to shoot. Did I converse with him from time to time? Yes I certainly did because I wanted someone there to help me stay calm. When he wasn't there in the beginning of the match I was off the air and not thinking clearly.

So if Lou's backer can tell Lou stuff to keep him calm and steady I don't see the problem if my wife or my friend does the same for me. I wasn't aware that anyone had mentioned that my coach was there because that isn't really how I thought of Dennis. I thought of him as a friend who lent me his knowledge before the match to help get me in shape pretty much like so many others had done during my travels prior to the match.

I don't have to cheat to win and all my adult life one thing has been consistent, I have always tried to win by giving it my best shot and have never once fouled and not told my opponent. I have lost matches because I touched a ball that no one else saw and I picked up the cue ball and handed it to my opponent. I would never want to win that way because it would be a hollow victory and plague me internally forever.
 

buttnkdwonder

Registered
John, you make the best cases in the world. I purchased one of your cases a couple years ago and will never go back. I will use JB Cases for life and would recommend the same to anyone.

That said, your online activity is in no way becoming of you as a professional--and potentially more concerning is how much time you spend bickering on this forum, rehashing things that happened years ago. Nobody would care about any of this stuff if you simply stopped engaging and trying to one-up everyone who responds to you. You're Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill, every day, with no end. Let it go man. Can't imagine what you could do with your talents with all the time you spend on this forum and on Facebook that you could spend on literally anything else.
 

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
https://youtu.be/NOk5pZQSh-k?t=7089

Lou takes his shot and freezes me to the end rail. I shoot my shot in less than one minute after Lou shot his. What you can't see is that I was NOWHERE near Dennis during this whole sequence. I simply took a little extra time to try to figure out what to do. And I thought I did good thing. Lou thought I did good thing although NOW he claims he said it was the wrong shot. No one else did.

So if THIS is the shot that convinced Lou I was being coached then I have to say that he is beyond delusional. Any competent one pocket player would have TORTURED me given the many opportunities Lou was handed. Watch the match and you can see that I threw it away. My stance and form was horrid. Looking back now I can't stand to see myself standing that way and am actually surprised that I was able to make any shots. Thanks CTE - proper aiming and shitty form only serve to result in highly inconsistent play.

I watched this again and enjoyed listening to the commentary as we were running through the whole thought process. It looked like a cool shot, and we both said as much. But that next, quick realization that taking yourself off the one hole made that shot not ideal for the situation.

Your next shot where you scratched....that was a self-inflicted dagger that could have simply ended your whole set. Your fighting back should be commended.


Freddie <~~~ wants to see it again
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
John, you make the best cases in the world. I purchased one of your cases a couple years ago and will never go back. I will use JB Cases for life and would recommend the same to anyone.

That said, your online activity is in no way becoming of you as a professional--and potentially more concerning is how much time you spend bickering on this forum, rehashing things that happened years ago. Nobody would care about any of this stuff if you simply stopped engaging and trying to one-up everyone who responds to you. You're Sisyphus rolling the rock up the hill, every day, with no end. Let it go man. Can't imagine what you could do with your talents with all the time you spend on this forum and on Facebook that you could spend on literally anything else.

All true. Still, I care that Lou and others don't get to lie about me without the record being set right.

Like I said above a lot of the growing up that might have been achieved in a different setting by a much younger age has taken me longer to get to.

For the record I think you can see that my time on this forum is extremely limited in the past several years. I didn't even know that Wilson is no longer a moderator but I am very very glad to see that he is no longer a moderator. I have said this a lot before and I will say it again, good moderation makes most of the arguing go away. In order for that to happen many moderators are needed to head off the type of flame wars that a "moth" like me is attracted to. And yes, I fully understand that it's ALWAYS my choice to engage - however neurologically speaking, the choice to engage often happens in microseconds without any deliberation. Takes a while to reprogram one's thought processes to stop that instant fight response.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
He no bury the hatchet and he has your so called 'soul' in that jar.

We don't know if you are shaking hands for the camera or not.

I didn't even know that the camera was still on. You can believe what you want. It is apparent to me that you, whomever you are, are wanting to stir the pot and if that makes you happy to do that then good for you. For myself however I much prefer facebook where people interact with their real names. I don't give any weight to what anons have to say.

If Lou wants to continue the "soul in a jar" nonsense that's up to him. Some people need those little things to make themselves feel good. And I am sure he will get a little ego boost when he sees that you mentioned it. All any writer wants is recognition and you have given him that so if you both feel good about it then great.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I personally thought that played foul was perfect nothing wrong with that shoot. It gave him a lock up and more options when he got back to the table. Can remember the next inning and video stoped. Sure does seem like a lot of armchair quarterbacking going on! John You shoot an awesome set **** any one tells you different! Most people don’t have the balls to put up that much money in a set. Respect

Thank you! The video picks up in the next episode in the same place.
 

ShootingHank

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didn't even know that the camera was still on. You can believe what you want. It is apparent to me that you, whomever you are, are wanting to stir the pot and if that makes you happy to do that then good for you. For myself however I much prefer facebook where people interact with their real names. I don't give any weight to what anons have to say.

If Lou wants to continue the "soul in a jar" nonsense that's up to him. Some people need those little things to make themselves feel good. And I am sure he will get a little ego boost when he sees that you mentioned it. All any writer wants is recognition and you have given him that so if you both feel good about it then great.

I respect your honesty and during this lock down it was your match that got me through the weekend. Some good wholesome entertainment. It was an event.

I still like how you walked out in a silk coat.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
This mom stuff sounds like bullshit. Any mother would get freaked out by some internet weirdo trying to get in touch with their son, but I seriously doubt JB was disrespectful to her.

The conversation went like this.

Me: Hello, this is John Barton and I am looking for Michael Lalumiere.

Mike's Mom: This is his mother and he doesn't live here would you like his phone number?

Me: That would be great thank you very much.

Mike's Mom: Recites his phone number.

Me: Thank you again, good bye.

-----------------------
 

TATE

AzB Gold Mensch
Silver Member
The conversation went like this.

Me: Hello, this is John Barton and I am looking for Michael Lalumiere.

Mike's Mom: This is his mother and he doesn't live here would you like his phone number?

Me: That would be great thank you very much.

Mike's Mom: Recites his phone number.

Me: Thank you again, good bye.

-----------------------

I heard it was "I ate his liver with fava beans and a nice Chianti fffffffff"
 
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