Grip question for Dr. Dave

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good players change their grips depending on the shot, the elevation of the butt from the surface of the table, the distance between the cue ball and the object ball, etc. always with the intent of effectively delivering the cue tip to the required aim on the cue ball. The Grip is just a delivery system. Experiment to discovers what works best for your physiology versus the requirement of the shot. There are no hard and fast rules.
Well said. Gotta find what works for YOU.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
If you want to break the rack with a lot of force backing up the hit use a more firm grip.

There's no practical difference. Cue speed = force. Whatever grip produces the most cue speed also produces the most force.
I assume you're thinking that a firmer grip puts some body mass behind the cue's momentum, giving it more force. This would be true except for the fact that the hand's soft flesh flexes too much during tip/ball contact to effectively transmit the added mass.

pj
chgo
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
utube question

The optimal power-break-cue weight for an individual depends on many factors. Lighter is better for some, heavier is better for others. FYI, this is covered in detail here:

optimal cue weight resource page

Tightness/tension in the grip (or arm) limits smooth acceleration and results in less speed. For more information, see the videos and other info here:

grip technique advice

light grip vs. tight grip

Enjoy,
Dave

I go to utube and Dr. Dave (amateur) has a instructional video "recommended for me" some thin' bout top ten shots amateur's play wrong. David are u trying to write me a a prescriptshun' for how to treat your sympom. Or are u pretending to be a some sort of pro scholar? Either way people who recommend' something' to others they have never met are probably focused on trying to write a prescript - and it's their disease.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I go to utube and Dr. Dave (amateur) has a instructional video "recommended for me" some thin' bout top ten shots amateur's play wrong. David are u trying to write me a a prescriptshun' for how to treat your sympom. Or are u pretending to be a some sort of pro scholar? Either way people who recommend' something' to others they have never met are probably focused on trying to write a prescript - and it's their disease.
The following video gets recommended to many people by YouTube, because it has been viewed by a lot of people interested in pool already (over 800,000 views in 9 months), and YouTube thinks other people like you interested in pool will also like it:

Top 10 Pool Shots Amateurs Play Wrong … and How to Play Them Right

I don't have any power or choice in this matter.

Concerning my "prescription," I do have a PhD and a DP (Doctorate of Pool), and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently, so I most definitely recommend that you and others watch the video. :grin-square:

And if you like it, I have others similar to it here:

Dr. Dave's "Top 10" instructional series on YouTube

Enjoy,
Dave

PS: Hi ... I'm Dave ... I'm an amateur pool player ... and I sometimes make the mistakes my videos say amateurs make but shouldn't. :frown:
 
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TommyT

Obsessed
Silver Member
I wonder if the poster wants to know where to place his hand, for maximum efficiency. I like to place my hand about 2-3 inches forward of my natural gripping area, to give my arm more strength in the task at hand.

You should know. I have your book and the Break Rack
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You should know. I have your book and the BreakRAK

Well thank you very much.... Jerry Brieseth came by our booth in 2012, at the DCC & shared that "little pearl" with us. Been doing that, since that moment....
 

Balls

Big Brass Balls
Silver Member
I need to work on shoes

Are balls and nodeflection the same person?????

No, there is just me and my one account. As special as you might feel you and this form is, it's not to me and I just don't have time to add more stupid work to my life.

This is before reading the users stuff.

I need to work on shoes more. OMG!
 

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There is one other aspect where grip tension affects the break and that's when players intentionally tighten the grip just prior to impact. The grab causes the cue stick to lunge forward slightly causing an increase in speed right at impact. Sometimes there's a wrist flick that accompanies the grab, adding even a little more speed.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
There is one other aspect where grip tension affects the break and that's when players intentionally tighten the grip just prior to impact. The grab causes the cue stick to lunge forward slightly causing an increase in speed right at impact. Sometimes there's a wrist flick that accompanies the grab, adding even a little more speed.
I think lots of Filipino players have the loose wrist/grip style you're describing. It's too much movement for me, but it looks like they get more, smoother action with less effort.

pj
chgo
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
ok dave

The following video gets recommended to many people by YouTube, because it has been viewed by a lot of people interested in pool already (over 800,000 views in 9 months), and YouTube thinks other people like you interested in pool will also like it:

Top 10 Pool Shots Amateurs Play Wrong … and How to Play Them Right

I don't have any power or choice in this matter.

Concerning my "prescription," I do have a PhD and a DP (Doctorate of Pool), and I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express recently, so I most definitely recommend that you and others watch the video. :grin-square:

And if you like it, I have others similar to it here:

Dr. Dave's "Top 10" instructional series on YouTube

Enjoy,
Dave

PS: Hi ... I'm Dave ... I'm an amateur pool player ... and I sometimes make the mistakes my videos say amateurs make but shouldn't. :frown:

yea I would question yer sales pitch with that term "amateurs" and I guess with those top shots u are illustrating u figure to not shoot em wrong repeatedly - even though u are indeed an amateur. If you ever run 200 + playing 14.1 feel free to send me that video. I sell my 351 for $40.00 american if you are interested. I know that you are an academic and that is your sales pitch - the amateurs do wrong ha ha. I would add that your opening pitch should be top ten mistakes academics make wrong - elusively comparing yourself to a pro is kinda weak and besides there is more money in being a doctor or acadimick' than that of a pro trying to survive in a nation of bar leagues. No thanks on your offer bout sending me more instructional homework in relation to pool or billiards I am far superior to you in either discipline sir (u would really need to hit the books hard before screwing your crew together in competition wit me). And it does say recommended by dr. dave, so please take me off the amateur academic lisp'. :rolleyes: Thank you sir in advance. Ohh this first lesson is free - staying at the holiday in won't help you accomplish a 200 ball run unless your dreaming about it in your sleep while staying there. "I never sleep, just open my eyes. - Chuck Norris
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
yea I would question yer sales pitch with that term "amateurs" and I guess with those top shots u are illustrating u figure to not shoot em wrong repeatedly - even though u are indeed an amateur. If you ever run 200 + playing 14.1 feel free to send me that video. I sell my 351 for $40.00 american if you are interested. I know that you are an academic and that is your sales pitch - the amateurs do wrong ha ha. I would add that your opening pitch should be top ten mistakes academics make wrong - elusively comparing yourself to a pro is kinda weak and besides there is more money in being a doctor or acadimick' than that of a pro trying to survive in a nation of bar leagues. No thanks on your offer bout sending me more instructional homework in relation to pool or billiards I am far superior to you in either discipline sir (u would really need to hit the books before screwing your crew together in competition wit me. And it does say recommended by dr. dave, so please take me off the amateurs lisp'. :rolleyes: Thank you sir in advance. Ohh this first lesson is free - staying at the holiday in won't help you accomplish a 200 ball run unless your dreaming about it in your sleep while staying there. "I never sleep, just open my eyes. - Chuck Norris
So your point is minor pro players are dicks?

pj
chgo
 

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
I've had problems with my grip my whole life, been to instructors to try to figure it out, but it didn't help. The grip I play with the most is just the hand and wrist at normal relaxed position and cue cradled by middle two fingers. I am most accurate with this grip but I don't get as much action from the CB unless I use more ummmppphh! After awhile I feel like I'm just pushing the cue around with no feel, like having a log attached to my elbow, I then switch to the grip where my thumb and forefinger are cradling the cue and then I rotate my pinky and hand away from the cue. With this grip I get a lot more action with minimal force, but feel I lose some accuracy with longer shots due to more deflection with the looser grip. I used to fight switching back and fortth but just do it now as needed. I've always played at the highest level(handicap) in any league I've been in and have beaten a few pros as I used to play some of them on a regular basis. I don't fight it anymore and found out from some instructors that there are pro level players with more problems than this, but I still wish I could figure it out .. must be a BRAIN malfunction thing!

Is more "umph" more wrist action to you? More cue ball roll distance? More draw? I have some ideas for you but need more information.
 
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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
here's an idea

Is more "umph" more wrist action to you? More cue ball roll distance? More draw? I have some ideas for you but need more information.

oops wrong post, i am so used to people attacking me on this forum as of late - I automatically go into defensive mode.
 
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sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I go to utube and Dr. Dave (amateur) has a instructional video "recommended for me" some thin' bout top ten shots amateur's play wrong. David are u trying to write me a a prescriptshun' for how to treat your sympom. Or are u pretending to be a some sort of pro scholar? Either way people who recommend' something' to others they have never met are probably focused on trying to write a prescript - and it's their disease.

Has anyone seen Harriman lately? If so, does he seem ok?
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
nope

So your point is minor pro players are dicks?

pj
chgo

No not really that at all, Dr. Dave seems genuine enough and probably not a bad dude, I just do not care for the recommended for u stuff. What is really bizarre is he prolly makes alot more denaro with his pitch about what amateurs do wrong than I do giving pool lessons. I guarantee I can run circles round him when it comes to billiard instruction, just as I am sure he has more books on billiards than i do. I will decide what is recommended for me, when i see 'recommended for you' I never click it (even if I am interested.) I guess I don't belong on social media is probably the best answer. Maybe that will change, as it's mostly fake news anyhue. An amateur trying to teach me bout anythin pool related is definitely fake news. I guess he has a contract with you tube and they thought it might interest me - they were wrong.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
glisten

I heard once that not all that glistens is gold, has anyone seen sparkle84 lately is he ok?
 

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes. This has been measured a couple of times. Basically it is a measurement of how rigidly the hand can hold the stick. Compared to how hard the tip is, the hand is very soft and springy. The bottom line is that by holding the stick very, very tightly, you might increase the effective mass of the stick by something like 1% which will get less than 1% increase in ball velocity.

So yes, a very tight grip (and the same stick speed) will move the cue ball very slightly faster. A very tight grip has disadvantages mentioned above.

Beyond that, I think working hard for a small increase in break speed is the wrong thing to work on. Study Corey Deuel

As usual, Bob goes straight to the most pertinent point.
For those wanting to drive themselves crazy looking for a minuscule increase in speed or power, check out this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB8nWQdiQes Not exactly relevant to this discussion but will probably explain all you'd ever want to know about speed, force, mass, momentum, etc. etc.
 
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