Joss warranty?

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good evening folks. I know there are a lot of Joss fans out there but I was wondering...I'm thinking of buying a Joss but I'm a little concerned about their warranty. As far as I can tell it's weak compared to others in the industry? All the other quality made-in-USA cue companies such as McDermott, Viking (I know, they're more of a mass-produced product) but also Schon, OB, and Pechauer have lifetime warranties, and most include warpage. The Joss warranty seems pretty restricted and to me it indicates they're not willing to stand behind their product like the others. It may not be a big deal to many and I know I'm a little OCD, but am I wrong or have others had the same concern and bought something else? Thanks for your feedback.
 
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Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good evening folks. I know there are a lot of Joss fans out there but I was wondering...I'm thinking of buying a Joss but I'm a little concerned about their warranty. As far as I can tell it's weak compared to others in the industry? All the other quality made-in-USA cue companies such as McDermott, Viking (I know, they're more of a mass-produced product) but also Schon, OB, and Pechauer have lifetime warranties, and most include warpage. The Joss warranty seems pretty restricted and to me it indicates they're not willing to stand behind their product like the others. It may not be a big deal to many and I know I'm a little OCD, but am I wrong or have others had the same concern and bought something else? Thanks for your feedback.

Are you buying a toaster or a pool cue? A pool cue or a warranty?

Any company absorbs warranty claims by charging more. That's all.

You have warranties by law, and those that are contractual. The lifetime warranties are limited and usually not what you think.

Dan Janes has been building cues since 1968. He has sponsored many events over the decades. He is a HOF cue maker.

I don't think there is a problem with business practices at Joss. I think I heard of one person with a bad experience with Joss.




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AlexandruM

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mezz is giving a lifetime warranty for their cues, but only for original buyer, if you sell the cue the second person doesn't have any warranty on the cue.
How do you think it is a good restriction? It is really a lifetime warranty for cue?

Joss warranty is a realistic one.
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mezz is giving a lifetime warranty for their cues, but only for original buyer, if you sell the cue the second person doesn't have any warranty on the cue.
How do you think it is a good restriction? It is really a lifetime warranty for cue?

Joss warranty is a realistic one.
Yes... most of the companies I mention, and others by the way, will replace your shaft if it EVER warps. That is for the original owner only and it may rarely come into play, but still it indicates a confidence in their product and a level of customer service that Joss does not offer, for whatever reason. That's all I'm saying and it isn't necessarily a reflection on the quality of Joss products, just the corporate position that seems a little less customer friendly than the majority of their competitors.
 

DaveM

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yes... most of the companies I mention, and others by the way, will replace your shaft if it EVER warps. That is for the original owner only and it may rarely come into play, but still it indicates a confidence in their product and a level of customer service that Joss does not offer, for whatever reason. That's all I'm saying and it isn't necessarily a reflection on the quality of Joss products, just the corporate position that seems a little less customer friendly than the majority of their competitors.

The "lifetime" warranty is a marketing tool, and not the reason I would buy a particular cue. I suppose it comes in handy for some at times. I have a Joss merry widow and wouldn't hesitate to buy another Joss cue.
A Hyundai has a longer warranty than any other make including Acura, Lexus, Mercedes and Cadillac. They're good vehicles, but aren't better vehicles than many other brands with a shorter warranty. Nor do they necessarily have better customer service.
 
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Johnny Rosato

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Research on here a little more a bout Joss' warranty. A guy on here was raising hell anytime Joss was mentioned for a while. Forgot his handle but I could find him. He said they would not honor the warranty if the cue had been chalked! My recent experience with both McD and Pechauer has been over-the-top. Because of what I read on here, I will think long and hard before I buy ANY Joss, and then I would only consider a block letter Joss at a bargain price! (I know, I know, you can't believe everything you read. So if someone writes something to dispute this should I read that & believe it, lol).
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes... most of the companies I mention, and others by the way, will replace your shaft if it EVER warps. That is for the original owner only and it may rarely come into play, but still it indicates a confidence in their product and a level of customer service that Joss does not offer, for whatever reason. That's all I'm saying and it isn't necessarily a reflection on the quality of Joss products, just the corporate position that seems a little less customer friendly than the majority of their competitors.

Actually I see such things as more of a marketing strategy and not about customer friendly.



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Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Research on here a little more a bout Joss' warranty. A guy on here was raising hell anytime Joss was mentioned for a while. Forgot his handle but I could find him. He said they would not honor the warranty if the cue had been chalked! My recent experience with both McD and Pechauer has been over-the-top. Because of what I read on here, I will think long and hard before I buy ANY Joss, and then I would only consider a block letter Joss at a bargain price! (I know, I know, you can't believe everything you read. So if someone writes something to dispute this should I read that & believe it, lol).

And that's the one guy I spoke of.


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ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The "lifetime" warranty is a marketing tool, and not the reason I would buy a particular cue. I suppose it comes in handy for some at times. I have a Joss merry widow and wouldn't hesitate to buy another Joss cue.
A Hyundai has a longer warranty than any other make including Acura, Lexus, Mercedes and Cadillac. They're good vehicles, but aren't better vehicles than many other brands with a shorter warranty. Nor do they necessarily have better customer service.
Not a good analogy. Hyundai (and Kia) are the only 2 out of many manufacturers with the exceptionally long warranties whereas virtually ALL the high quality USA cue makers EXCEPT Joss offer the longer warranties. That doesn't mean they make better cues than Joss of course but by definition I think it does mean better customer service, and if just a marketing ploy I can't help but wonder why everyone employs it but them? To those who use, enjoy, and are loyal to Joss that's fine, and if you have had nothing but positive experience with them that's great also and the kind of feedback I'm looking for, but I don't understand the emotional and defensive responses to this thread.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a McDermott C-14 cue that I bought new back in 1985, after the D-line was introduced, and I am the original owner. It has remained in perfect condition all these years, but I sent it back to McDermott for a refinish a couple years ago just to make it look brand new.

If one owns a cue for a "lifetime", how would they prove they were the "original" owner? Do they expect someone to keep a receipt for decades and decades?
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a McDermott C-14 cue that I bought new back in 1985, after the D-line was introduced, and I am the original owner. It has remained in perfect condition all these years, but I sent it back to McDermott for a refinish a couple years ago just to make it look brand new.

If one owns a cue for a "lifetime", how would they prove they were the "original" owner? Do they expect someone to keep a receipt for decades and decades?
Hard to go backwards if one doesn't keep records, but I'm pretty good about keeping receipts for years. Better than that though...most cue manufacturers, including McDermott and Pechauer, which I own, allow you to register the purchase on their websites. Reasonably though, I probably wouldn't nitpick after many years of good service from a cue. If, however, my shaft were to warp after a couple months without me leaving it in the car, etc.and the maker didn't care? I know that's rare, but that would really bother me, and I've seen a post dated a couple years ago where that exactly happened to a Joss owner and he was not a happy camper.
 

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not a good analogy. Hyundai (and Kia) are the only 2 out of many manufacturers with the exceptionally long warranties whereas virtually ALL the high quality USA cue makers EXCEPT Joss offer the longer warranties. That doesn't mean they make better cues than Joss of course but by definition I think it does mean better customer service, and if just a marketing ploy I can't help but wonder why everyone employs it but them? To those who use, enjoy, and are loyal to Joss that's fine, and if you have had nothing but positive experience with them that's great also and the kind of feedback I'm looking for, but I don't understand the emotional and defensive responses to this thread.

Works both ways.

I consider the response regarding one complaining poster to be emotional.

I think the whole reaction about tying customer service to the warranty to be a reactionary emotional response.

Nowhere do I see anything about the product in that idea nor any real association with customer service.

You wonder why companies do what they do regarding warranties? For exactly the same reason that you are here asking! Because people think it means better customer service!

But it does not mean that at all. No, it does not by definition mean they offer better customer service. It is indeed intended to fuel that perception though. You are a great consumer though...classic target of advertising and marketing.



Have you met and spoken with Dan Janes?



This was your question:
It may not be a big deal to many and I know I'm a little OCD, but am I wrong or have others had the same concern and bought something else? Thanks for your feedback.

Personally, I don't think that's OCD about pool cues. OCD is being very focused on every little detail and spec of cue construction.

Focusing on the warranty isn't OCD, it's missing the point of choosing a pool cue.



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JayTee

New member
I bought my Joss at their shop in MD and have spoke to Dan multiple times....he even did work on a friend's Meucci Gambler for free. He's a great man, and my Joss with the new HP laminate shaft is the best cue I've ever owned. I'm buying his Thor break cue next.
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thanks for the feedback. As I said...I may buy a Joss and I know historically they have a solid reputation but want to be sure they're making a product with QC controls in place where a weaker warranty than their competitors won't be a concern.
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The "lifetime" warranty is a marketing tool, and not the reason I would buy a particular cue. I suppose it comes in handy for some at times. I have a Joss merry widow and wouldn't hesitate to buy another Joss cue.
A Hyundai has a longer warranty than any other make including Acura, Lexus, Mercedes and Cadillac. They're good vehicles, but aren't better vehicles than many other brands with a shorter warranty. Nor do they necessarily have better customer service.
By coincidence...I own a Hyundai Sonata and it's been a great car but recently had some suspension problems that would have cost $hundreds repaired for free with a smile. I was glad I had that 100,000 mile warranty then.
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good evening folks. I know there are a lot of Joss fans out there but I was wondering...I'm thinking of buying a Joss but I'm a little concerned about their warranty. As far as I can tell it's weak compared to others in the industry? All the other quality made-in-USA cue companies such as McDermott, Viking (I know, they're more of a mass-produced product) but also Schon, OB, and Pechauer have lifetime warranties, and most include warpage. The Joss warranty seems pretty restricted and to me it indicates they're not willing to stand behind their product like the others. It may not be a big deal to many and I know I'm a little OCD, but am I wrong or have others had the same concern and bought something else? Thanks for your feedback.
I've had some Joss users get really defensive about my question above and talk about what a legend Dan Janes is, and that's fine, but I was actually mocked for thinking a better warranty would be a good idea. For people who've had nothing but great experiences using Joss cues I would expect you to be loyal. However, below is a post on Joss's Facebook page from an unhappy customer of theirs they refused to help. I've heard other similar stories regarding Joss cues, but I haven't heard anything like this from Pechauer, OB, or McDermott customers. This is exactly my concern, and I don't believe I will support a company that treats their customers like this.
" May 15, 2017
I recently sent my Joss Cue back to the manufacturer due to the shaft splitting in half in a way that seemed abnormal, and possible a defect. I was quite disappointed when I got a call from Dan at Joss, advising me they have no lifetime warranty, nor were they willing to offer any assistance, other than charging full price for a new shaft. To top it all off, after I paid to have the cue shipped there, they expected me to foot the bill for them to send it back. For anyone looking to purchase a new cue, I would think twice about choosing Joss. I would certainly check into a company that stands behind their workmanship and at least makes an effort to keep their customers satisfied."
 

ddg45

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The "lifetime" warranty is a marketing tool, and not the reason I would buy a particular cue. I suppose it comes in handy for some at times. I have a Joss merry widow and wouldn't hesitate to buy another Joss cue.
A Hyundai has a longer warranty than any other make including Acura, Lexus, Mercedes and Cadillac. They're good vehicles, but aren't better vehicles than many other brands with a shorter warranty. Nor do they necessarily have better customer service.
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Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Broken shaft? I have heard similar stories about all the makers you mention. Customer service failures, unsatisfied customers, refusals to cover something on warranty. Pretty standard for anybody selling any product.

Do you understand such anecdotal evidence is generally not a good indicator?

You got that from their Facebook page? And they didn't delete it?

Sounds pretty honest to me.

What's odd is that you reject the most experienced opinions. I have over 85 cues. I collect and have intensively studied their construction for many years. In addition I follow the market and technology developments closely and have for many years.

I am not a "Joss fan" and I am not defensive about Joss. Just honest and outspoken.

Are you aware of what's inside any of the cues you are talking about? At all? I would think that should be very important to you.

The most expensive part of the Joss is inside the butt. You can't even see it. https://josscues.com/the-joss-way/cue-making-the-joss-way-today/

You seem to be focusing on the shaft warranty. Are you aware you can buy a Joss without a shaft and use a shaft from another manufacturer?


For the public record the OP PMed me and does not want my opinion. He seems to feel I am "negative".

I am honest. That's all. No more. No less. If I don't know, I'll tell you. If I do, I'll tell you.

Joss quality is excellent and their quality control is excellent. Their warranty? I don't even look at warranties on such things as cues.



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philly

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
By coincidence...I own a Hyundai Sonata and it's been a great car but recently had some suspension problems that would have cost $hundreds repaired for free with a smile. I was glad I had that 100,000 mile warranty then.

First off Hyundais have a 100,000 mile powertrain waranty. Engine, transmission , drive system (fwd or awd). You got lucky somehow. Good on ya.

Secondly you won't find a more upstanding cue maker than Dan Janes. I just picked up a custom from him thet we designed together at this years expo. Exceeded my expectations in the aesthetics department as I gave him leeway to be creative. He is Mr. Overdeliver. Answers your questions promptly through the whole process and takes incredible pride in his product.
 

radnur22

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I bought an entry level Joss in 1990. It had ivory ferrules on both shafts with an ivory butt plate, $100 down or something like that and wait for 6 months. School and family life got the best of me and it sat for several decades with an occasional game or two. I just got back into playing pool and noticed both shafts and butt were warped. After contacting Dan to see if he could fix it, he said buy a new cue. He didn't offer any type of discount for customer loyalty, which I would have gladly taken him up on. Anyway, I did buy a new cue, but it was with a company that has a lifetime warranty. If I live another 30 years and it warps, I'll return it for a replacement :wink:
 
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