Evan Clarke -vs- Bob Runde ...And Schon Cues

Many years ago there was a Chinese restaurant that was the first dinner date that me and my wife had together. This was in China town in Det. We went there for years after. The area got real bad and the place closed. About 10 years ago we found that they relocated to a northern suburb that was about 50 miles away. We went there and had our favorites and talked to the owner that was the son of the original. We talked a long time about the old days. Not too long ago we decided to go there as it has been about 5 years since our last visit. Ordered our same favorites but they did not taste or look the same. The waitress said that new owners took over 3 years ago as the son died in a car crash and the children did not want to run the business as it was too much work. She said they are still using the same original recipes. The recipes may be the same but the cooks or something is lacking or missing. We found this out after dinner when the waitress presented the bill but before that we both commented to each other that there was something lacking in the food.

We will no longer go out of our way to go there and even when in the area it will not be on our list of things to do.

No one can play a guitar like Jimmy Hendricks, Clapton, Santana and etc even though they have the same notes in front of them.

The same can be said for anything. It is that personal magic that some have that just cannot be duplicated.

$TAKE HOR$E said:

Mass production.....probably already been said, at least I hope so.

Click to expand...

Not all Evans work is cnc'd or "mass produced".Yes he does a have a production line...stl,sr,sl etc...As Bob had the S,and R series...Here's a example of each..And it is very tough to choose..IMO

kbooks3 said:

Bob is a talented cue maker but more importantly a real class act. He recently replaced a warped shaft for me at no charge...it took him less than two weeks and he even paid for the return shipping...and though the warped shaft had never hit a ball...the cue was over 2 yrs old.

Thanks,

Jeremy

Click to expand...

I own the cue that had the warped shaft Jeremy is talking about. Bob sent a replacement shaft for the warped shaft with no questions asked. I've owned a number of Bob Runde's cues over the years and his workmanship is great and his cues play very well........

James

All I have to offer is an observation. In the 80's and 90's a lot of good players were using Schon's. It was one of the most popular "players" cues. Their resale value was equal or greater then the cost new. Not many cues at that time held value as well.

By the mid to late 90's fewer and fewer pros were playing with Schons. It was well known that Bob Runde was no longer making them. The pros for the most part passed on the new Schons. At that point they became a true mass production company, marketing mainly to all the amateur pool players. A good company decision I'm sure. They had already built their reputation. Now they were just another production cue, along with Meucci, McDermott and Viking. Still good cues but not 'Rundes'.

I personally owned several early Schon's. Some of them were one of kind cues, with no model number. I regret the fact that I sold all of them. Those old four pointers Bob made were the NUTS! And still are if you can find one.

I have 5 Schon cues from a STL-09 &15, R14, SL-17 and a Elite 54. The quality is very good and the hit on all of them are solid. I was amazed that I was able to buy the R14 for less than half the price of an Old Runde R14. I have one Schon IV shaft and it has a solid hit.
I think the issue is that some of the people feel cheated when Bob left and Schon started to go after a different market. Similar to a cue maker who made some high end cues then started selling his cues on eBay for a fraction and the old prices tank. Alot of people are still upset about that one. Mitch

SpinDoctor said:

To the poster who said that runde didn't core his cues, mine may prove otherwise. My cue has an ebony forearm with no points and I have to assume it's cored because of weight of solid ebony. I have had it dated to the runde era but can't seem to find a model number and have never seen another one.

Click to expand...

I was under the impression that if you have a ebony forearm that is cored, you can look inside the joint sleeve to see if the wood that the joint pin screws into is the black ebony color. If it is not and is a light brown straight grained wood, then it is cored.

Stl 20

I have an STL 20 asn i was told by Evin that it was on 2 or 3 made as an LTD series. I was wondering if anyone could tell me when it was made. I do know it does not have sharp points on it. Here is a pic of it. Thanks in advance

mamono said:

I was under the impression that if you have a ebony forearm that is cored, you can look inside the joint sleeve to see if the wood that the joint pin screws into is the black ebony color. If it is not and is a light brown straight grained wood, then it is cored.

Click to expand...

I actually hadn't thought of that, I'll have to take a look and see. Thanks for the tip. I'll keep you posted

jay helfert said:

All I have to offer is an observation. In the 80's and 90's a lot of good players were using Schon's. It was one of the most popular "players" cues. Their resale value was equal or greater then the cost new. Not many cues at that time held value as well.

By the mid to late 90's fewer and fewer pros were playing with Schons. It was well known that Bob Runde was no longer making them. The pros for the most part passed on the new Schons. At that point they became a true mass production company, marketing mainly to all the amateur pool players. A good company decision I'm sure. They had already built their reputation. Now they were just another production cue, along with Meucci, McDermott and Viking. Still good cues but not 'Rundes'.

I personally owned several early Schon's. Some of them were one of kind cues, with no model number. I regret the fact that I sold all of them. Those old four pointers Bob made were the NUTS! And still are if you can find one.

Click to expand...

I don't understand this whole, production vs. custom thing...
Evan has admitted to having like 4 or 5 guys in their shop. Jacoby has had at least that many for quite some time now. Southwest is in the same boat as schon. Does that mean southwest is a production cue company? People won't say so because they don't make "that many cues" and have a backlog of people waiting for their cues for like 6,7, or 8 years...
I'll tell you the difference here, southwest has a different marketing strategy than schon. That's it. Really, all schon did was make it harder on themselves by increasing volume/decreasing demand. It's unfortunate, but it happened. Like someone said, "many top pro's were using shon cues in the 1990's... but then started passing on them soon after." Well, it wasn't because quality went down. If that was the case, why would't they just play with the slightly older "runde-shons"? The answer is this, someone else started offering endorsements or these guys were tired of shooting with what everyone else had. Joey Gold came to the scene with his gimmick g-10 GLASS PIN! Yeah it has its benefits, but its a gimmick and it was a beautifully thought out gimmick. BTW, from what I understand Joey Gold does less on the cues that "he builds" than he would lead most to believe (at least from what I've heard-maybe someone could chime in that has first hand knowledge). From what I understand he doesn't program his cnc, he's NEVER built a spliced forearm cue to my knowledge (it wasn't part of his genious master plan-and I'm serious about that). So do those things make him a production cue maker or a custom cue maker? What is he? He makes over 100 cues a year, yet his cues demand the highest of prices. His quality is the BEST that money can buy. Ask Deno Andrews about all the cues he saw broken and thrown out during his time with joey. He maintains a top notch quality as well as consistancy. Schon does as well. Their attention to detail may not be as great as Joey's, but whose is? And I'm sure that it isn't because they lack the ability, but the demand is so high, based on their current pricing, that they couldn't keep up with demand if they were to tighten up their tolerances as much as some their top notch high-end CNC using NON-PRODUCTION "CUSTOM CUE" building competition. They have a niche' they fill it well.


HERE'S MY BIGGEST POINT- If you want a top notch, high-end "CUSTOM" cue (and I haven't done this but may...) Call up EVAN and see if he'll build a cue to your specs (hence the custom part) spliced, cnc, or whatever tickles your fancy, and see what results you get when the order is filled. I'm sure that if one were to work with the man and explain your expectations, they can be met. For the right price i'm sure, but methinks they can be met.

mamono said:

I was under the impression that if you have a ebony forearm that is cored, you can look inside the joint sleeve to see if the wood that the joint pin screws into is the black ebony color. If it is not and is a light brown straight grained wood, then it is cored.

Click to expand...

unless there's an insert that the pin was set into.

mamono said:

I was under the impression that if you have a ebony forearm that is cored, you can look inside the joint sleeve to see if the wood that the joint pin screws into is the black ebony color. If it is not and is a light brown straight grained wood, then it is cored.

Click to expand...

Here's a shot of my Runde cue that has an ebony forearm and looking at the ivory joint you can see maple inside the ebony. If my cue wasn't cored it would be way too heavy for me.......

James

i believe both evan and bob make good pool cues,i don't think the runde era schons are enough different for anyone to tell the difference in play,sharp poins vs rounded points
if i were to mask the cues i doubt if anyone could pick out the different ones by playing
also i think when evan retires all of us will wish we had some of his cues,

and that time may not be long a from now,in my opinion schon cues are among the best cues made,no telling how many great players have won us opens playing schon,but i would guess more than most if not all

dean

deanoc said:

i believe both evan and bob make good pool cues,i don't think the runde era schons are enough different for anyone to tell the difference in play,sharp poins vs rounded points
if i were to mask the cues i doubt if anyone could pick out the different ones by playing
also i think when evan retires all of us will wish we had some of his cues,

and that time may not be long a from now,in my opinion schon cues are among the best cues made,no telling how many great players have won us opens playing schon,but i would guess more than most if not all

dean

Click to expand...

Good post. The Evan Schons play as well as about any cue I have played with. They are well built.

Runde vs Clark

I prefer the Runde era cues, because like most have stated they have more of a solid hit. But this an opinion and preference. Schon must be doing something right because they sell a heck of a lot of cues. My point is that cues, manufacturers and processes evolve. Some like evolution for the better, some do not. Look at the picture I attached. BOTH are Schon cues, the implex joint is earlier than the R series it sits next to. Imagine what it would be like if Runde had not evolved into a different set up which defined the hit the R series are famous for.

Just a quick question for the Schon Gurus here: I was under the impression, or I thought I'd heard that Nubs Wagner was also a key players at Schon before he branched out and started Nova Cues. Am I right about this or not? I haven't seen his name mentioned in this thread which surprised me a little. Hope someone can clear this up for me. Maybe it's just my "mad cow" acting up! :grin:

cuesmith said:

Just a quick question for the Schon Gurus here: I was under the impression, or I thought I'd heard that Nubs Wagner was also a key players at Schon before he branched out and started Nova Cues. Am I right about this or not? I haven't seen his name mentioned in this thread which surprised me a little. Hope someone can clear this up for me. Maybe it's just my "mad cow" acting up! :grin:

Click to expand...

I don't know Sherm, but can you find out where he got the name "Nubs" anyway. I like it.

Chris

Here the info that I have picked up:

Bob setup McD's machinery back in the day.
Evan worked at McD.

Per Bob, he never used a Szamboti forearm. I keep forgetting that Terry could have and probably would have ordered the forearms, as he owned the pool hall. Doesn't mean they where used, or at least by Bob for a Schon cue.

Per Barry, he has records showing Schon ordering forearms.

Runde sold in 92 and started making Runde's in 95.

Runde Schons should not be cored.

New Schons are, as are Runde's.

I think non-cored noses are the difference in hit, i.e. old school.

Patrick

I got a variation of a Runde R5 as a christmas present from my then girlfriend back around 1990. I have hit with other cues and nothing that I have hit with felt as solid. Like some others have said, I tried out a newer Schon and it had a hollower feel to it. Nothing wrong with it, it was a beautiful cue and some people may prefer that type of hit but to me it didn't compare to my Runde. I am so glad I held onto that cue. I got out of the sport for many years and now that I am playing again I am so happy to have it.

Schon

I had a Schon that was made in the late 70's it must have been since I got it from Jimmy King at the Texas Open in Austin at Moyer's in 79.
It had 4 ebony points with a ivory diamond in each point and a matching diamond in the butt straight in line with the ones in the points. It had a 14 mm shaft and hit as solid as any cue I have ever had. I quit playing in the early 80's and sold it along with several other nice cues I wish I still had.
The story Jimmy King told me was that Terry named the company after I think his daughter, can anyone verify that or not? I guess it doesn't really matter but was just wondering. I know they are great cues period.

knifemaker said:

I had a Schon that was made in the late 70's it must have been since I got it from Jimmy King at the Texas Open in Austin at Moyer's in 79.
It had 4 ebony points with a ivory diamond in each point and a matching diamond in the butt straight in line with the ones in the points. It had a 14 mm shaft and hit as solid as any cue I have ever had. I quit playing in the early 80's and sold it along with several other nice cues I wish I still had.
The story Jimmy King told me was that Terry named the company after I think his daughter, can anyone verify that or not? I guess it doesn't really matter but was just wondering. I know they are great cues period.

Click to expand...

According to Blue Book Schon didn't start making cues until '81 and it said they named the company after the german word for 'beautiful' if that helps at all...could maybe have been a nickname for his daughter? Funny nickname now that I think about it but stranger things have happened.