Tighter pockets

pt109 said:

RKC,,,,you really need to make sets of these and sell them to billiard mechanics.....
...4.5 inch corners and appropriate side dimensions.

To be world legal at snooker, this template has to fit....

View attachment 432899

Click to expand...

Actually....I do have a pocket gage I invented that when placed in the corner pockets and lined up in the feather strip Dado it point blank shows you where the sub rails need to end and the miter angles as well for any size pocket I want.... symmetrically centered. Diamond has copied it and made 3 pocket gages of their own as to be able to check their own work.....after they got a suprise using mine....but I'm not selling it:thumbup:

realkingcobra said:

Actually....I do have a pocket gage I invented that when placed in the corner pockets and lined up in the feather strip Dado it point blank shows you where the sub rails need to end and the miter angles as well for any size pocket I want.... symmetrically centered. Diamond has copied it and made 3 pocket gages of their own as to be able to check their own work.....after they got a suprise using mine....but I'm not selling it:thumbup:

Click to expand...

Well, you never come to Canada.....we could use some of your expertise.
.....a set of your gauges would be great.

A family I was fond of got into making tables....using a cue, I showed them how the jaws
of the corner pockets lined up differently.....some to one diamond from the side pocket...
....some lined up to the middle diamond.

I have also played on tables where the contact point on the rails were too low.
....Pro Line was one of them.....I hit a long straight back at a good speed...
...needed a search party to find the object ball...low rail sent it air-borne.

Because of you, I also became more aware of the angle of the jaw from the top to the
slate.
I played on a triple-shimmed table once, I powered a frozen ball down the long rail...
...that shot was in on a snooker table...
....the ball hit the far jaw and went straight up.

The pool world needs those templates

realkingcobra said:

But here's the real question for you, did you have the inconsistent pocket miter angles corrected when you had that done or did you just extend the angles that were already cut to begin with?

Click to expand...

I bought a used Gold Crown IV. The pockets were whatever size the factory makes them. (5 - 1/8 ?) I knew I wanted them tighter than that. I had the table delivered, and they left iit un - assembled on the basement floor. I live in Chicago. I called Jerimy Chambers. He came over to the house. We decided to do a sub - rail extension. I told him I wanted it "Diamondized" the best he could. ( I'd been reading your posts about the process and results) He said he knew how to do that.

I was going to go with 4 - 1/2; but, after learning from Jerimy that the extension would shorten the shelf a bit, I decided on 4 - 3/8. It sounded good to Jerimy, He took the rails back to the shop with him. It took him a bit longer than I expected to get them back to me. He explained that he had a back log of rails that had been mailed to him that he had to finish first.

Anyhow; Jerimy came back with the rails, set up the table, AND IT WAS WELL WORTH THE WAIT. As I said, I love 'em. Sometimes I think the pockets are a TAD to tight......but, just a TAD. I'd like to play on one of his tables with 4 - 1/2's just to see what they're like. I really suspect though, that no one has better pockets than I have.

The only reason I originally posted was to discourage the OP from making his pockets 4 - 1/4. I know there are some who want to make things more challenging on their home tables - the thinking being they will, therefore, perform better on the looser tables at the pool room. If that's the OP's motivation, I won't tell him he's wrong; but, If the O.P. wants a "Fair" table, I just can't see going tighter than my 4 - 3/8's.

realkingcobra said:

Actually....I do have a pocket gage I invented that when placed in the corner pockets and lined up in the feather strip Dado it point blank shows you where the sub rails need to end and the miter angles as well for any size pocket I want.... symmetrically centered. Diamond has copied it and made 3 pocket gages of their own as to be able to check their own work.....after they got a suprise using mine....but I'm not selling it:thumbup:

Click to expand...

Serious, but curious, question. Why not sell them? It is obvious you care about quality work on pool tables and that you cannot do all of the ones people would like you to do. It is also obvious that you are basically a helpful person who does not mind exposing hacks but who has also devoted significant effort in educating mechanics who want to be better through your videos. Selling your gauge/template would help identify hacks and would help the good guys do a better job. And make you a few bucks. What is the down side, other than exclusivity?

KissedOut said:

Serious, but curious, question. Why not sell them? It is obvious you care about quality work on pool tables and that you cannot do all of the ones people would like you to do. It is also obvious that you are basically a helpful person who does not mind exposing hacks but who has also devoted significant effort in educating mechanics who want to be better through your videos. Selling your gauge/template would help identify hacks and would help the good guys do a better job. And make you a few bucks. What is the down side, other than exclusivity?

Click to expand...

I just stopped to grab something to eat, I'm heading to Seattle on my motorcycle. Saw what you asked and don't have enough time to answer your question right now, but maybe later tonight I will, but I don't think you'll like my answer:sorry:

4 1/4 is not that tight at all. I frequently play on Oscar and Ernesto Dominguez personal diamonds dialed in at 3 7/8 and watch them run out like it's nothing. As others have said, center pocket is the same no matter what size. The only issue with tight pockets is you need to leave yourself good angles... But I'd take that over buckets any day 1

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

pip9ball said:

4 1/4 is not that tight at all. I frequently play on Oscar and Ernesto Dominguez personal diamonds dialed in at 3 7/8 and watch them run out like it's nothing. As others have said, center pocket is the same no matter what size. The only issue with tight pockets is you need to leave yourself good angles... But I'd take that over buckets any day 1

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Then Oscar had no excuse for missing so many shots then on the TAR' table with 4 1/8" corner pockets, so why did he miss so many times with bigger pockets? It's easy to run out when no one's watching I guess.

Everything is easier when practicing and nothing on the line. However, Ill stake Oscar for as much as you can afford on any table of your choice. You can get the 5 out playing 10b

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Well then, let's just make this real interesting. How about you bet all your money on Oscar against me.....and I win every time Oscar fails to run out from everywhere

pip9ball said:

Everything is easier when practicing and nothing on the line. However, Ill stake Oscar for as much as you can afford on any table of your choice. You can get the 5 out playing 10b

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

In fact, I don't even have to play Oscar to beat him, I'll take the ghost playing him on a table with 4 1/2" corner pockets.....only, he can't start with ball in hand, he has to run out from the break or I win every time he misses....how much do you want to bet now?

realkingcobra said:

In fact, I don't even have to play Oscar to beat him, I'll take the ghost playing him on a table with 4 1/2" corner pockets.....only, he can't start with ball in hand, he has to run out from the break or I win every time he misses....how much do you want to bet now?

Click to expand...

If he doesn't have to make a ball on the break. That may be a bad bet.

jburkm002 said:

If he doesn't have to make a ball on the break. That may be a bad bet.

Click to expand...

Isn't part of being a run out player, having a powerful enough break to be able to make at least one ball on the break? But even still, even being able to shoot after the break with no ball made, not being able to pick the cue ball up and place it anywhere to start....would require a minimum of running 50% of all racks just to stay even....Oscar has no chance of doing that, let alone beating the ghost. There may be only a had full of players on the planet that could win under those circumstances....so, I'm willing to bet:thumbup:

You opened your mouth about Oscar missing so many shots.... I fired back by saying if he misses so much why don't you try him with the 5 out. Now you want to play the stupid ghost game? Part of Oscars game is safety play... You don't have to be a run out player to win games. You can get the 1 out playing 9 ball with Oscar getting all the breaks....cmon man up and bet something against a player who misses so much.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

pip9ball said:

You opened your mouth about Oscar missing so many shots.... I fired back by saying if he misses so much why don't you try him with the 5 out. Now you want to play the stupid ghost game? Part of Oscars game is safety play... You don't have to be a run out player to win games. You can get the 1 out playing 9 ball with Oscar getting all the breaks....cmon man up and bet something against a player who misses so much.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I'll tell you what, since I quit playing pool in Jan 1990, that don't make me blind to someone missing balls, I've seen what I've seen. Point was if a player can run out from anywhere on a table with 3 7/8" corner pockets.....one would expect that player to be a force to dominate the 4 1/2" corner pockets tables used in the tournaments today, but....maybe Oscar just can't deal with playing on a table with bigger pockets....maybe he goes blind or something, I don't know....but he's won nothing at the DCC or the US open, and the Turning Stone tournament he did win....had no one of any high caliber in the event....that were all playing somewhere else at the time. But I'll tell ya what, Oscar and I can match up with something we still both do today, and that's working on pool tables. How about we match up doing that? In fact, how about we make it a doubles event, you pick Oscar and Ernesto for your team, bet high, bet everything you've got now, make it worth my while....LOL....and I'll pick Mark Gregory for my team mate....and have both teams rebuild a Gold Crown and see who turns out the best playing 4" corner pocket, 4 1/2" sides pocket table....side by side....anywhere in this country.....I'm sorry, did your balls just jump up into your mouth?.....LMAO

Oh so this is what it's all about... A pissing contest about who's the best table mechanic? Well considering I had to have Ernesto fix my diamond that you setup... I'll take Ernesto any day over you. I can't say anything bad about Mark Gregory because I heard he was does amazing work.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

pip9ball said:

Oh so this is what it's all about... A pissing contest about who's the best table mechanic? Well considering I had to have Ernesto fix my diamond that you setup... I'll take Ernesto any day over you. I can't say anything bad about Mark Gregory because I heard he was does amazing work.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Setting up a factory built pool table has nothing to do with my skills, that's why it's called....a factory pool table, I have no idea what you had Ernesto do to your table....as far as betting goes....just say when and we can get it on, in fact I know where there's some red label Diamonds in California, we can both take a turn at making them play better than the factory did....and see who's plays better when done, how much do you want to bet....we should match up on this one.....:thumbup:

pip9ball said:

Oh so this is what it's all about... A pissing contest about who's the best table mechanic? Well considering I had to have Ernesto fix my diamond that you setup... I'll take Ernesto any day over you. I can't say anything bad about Mark Gregory because I heard he was does amazing work.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

And no, this wasn't about a pissing contest as to who the best pool table mechanic is, it was me just simply calling BS when I read it, and that's what I did....called BS on Oscar running out from everywhere on a table with 3 7/8" corner pockets....let alone a Diamond with pockets that tight....YOU started the BS, not me....I simply called BS on Oscars abilities to do so when he couldn't run 2 racks in a row on the TAR table with 4 1/8" pockets when he played Raj.

realkingcobra said:

... and the Turning Stone tournament he did win....had no one of any high caliber in the event....that were all playing somewhere else at the time. ...

Click to expand...

It was a pretty good field, Glen: http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...50-turning-stone-casino-classic-xiii/results/

AtLarge said:

It was a pretty good field, Glen: http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_an...50-turning-stone-casino-classic-xiii/results/

Click to expand...

Not saying it was a walk in the park, but quite a few of the world beaters were not playing in it as there was a conflicting tournament going on at the same time in which a lot of the best players on the planet decided to play in, the Filipino players as well as the Taiwanese players and the Chinese players, as well as SVB

realkingcobra said:

Not saying it was a walk in the park, but quite a few of the world beaters were not playing in it as there was a conflicting tournament going on at the same time in which a lot of the best players on the planet decided to play in, the Filipino players as well as the Taiwanese players and the Chinese players, as well as SVB

Click to expand...

SVB was one of the players Oscar beat on his path to victory. SVB finished 5th/6th.

I can't find any significant conflicting event. The World 14.1 event started a day after TS ended. A Seminole Pro Tour event was the week before in Florida, and the World Cup of Pool started in Manila 9 days after TS ended; SVB did play in both of those.