Our Bar Rules and Playing System

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
The problem isn't that a bunch of locals can't play a cordial game of pool. The problem is they go to another bar and try to force those rules on others and then arguments ensue. Thats because they were never taught the correct rules. And sure as hell don't respect the game.

The game wasn't invented by a bunch of bar flies (no offense to bar flies, I am one) and golf wasn't invented by putt-putter. I don't play golf by the official rules, but I at least try to learn them the best I can and respect from where they came.

Don't go into a chefs kitchen and tell him how to cook. Thats my opinion.

Nobody who regularly plays in that bar would "force" those rules on others. They're not savages, they're pool players. And like I said, here we don't argue about rules. They're mostly the same everywhere. Minor differences can be settled before the game. Maybe where you're from there used to be trouble with the bar pool crowd. That would explain your prejudice that all bar players are drunks who start fights every now and then. Yes, an idiot can show up in a bar here as well, but it has nothing to do with pool. Pool by itself doesn't attract problematic crowd, quite the contrary.

Hahahaha....I have a sneaky suspicion that these rules are totally made up BS, proffered here to arouse a silly debate.

On the slim chance that they are not, all I can say is that if I owned a bar with a coin-op pool table and ever caught someone playing by these rules on a busy night, I would 86 that person. No more pool for you.

If two players both settled to play by those (or any other) rules, why ban them from playing? They're not forcing anyone to play that way, and they'd most likely order some drinks while playing in your hypothetical bar.
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
I like how the OP asked for opinions on the pros as well as the cons.

The first Con that came to mind are losing on the break if you make the eight and another ball. This is not as bad as the bar rule that if you scratch on the break regardless of any balls being pocketed, it's an instant loss that I've seen played by bangers. Both rules would strongly encourage soft breaking to avoid the risk of losing the table to a weaker player and would make the wait times terrible. (I can understand why another poster told the story of the "No last pocket eight ball. I've always thought it was rude to play bank the eight or last pocket when everyone else waiting in line plays the fast way)

I've always said you should never have rules that could easily start arguments and I use that as the reason why you shouldn't have to call every rail and every ball that the OB has to go off, then I set up a shot and explain that if the shot is hit very hard you could never see all the different ricochets of every ball and rail)

But in the OP's rules,

"They are only allowed to shoot forward, in the direction towards the foot rail, in a way that their cue doesn't pass over either corner pocket. That pretty much means they can only shoot at balls positioned between right and left side pocket and the head spot, and at anything below that"

there would need to be a button that would turn on the corner pocket lasers that would act like bowling lasers that buzz if set off to make sure your cue stick doesn't go past the allotted area. Without these lasers that you turn on after a scratch, there would be arguments.

Assuming you don't have lasers, what exact part of the corner pocket can you shoot inside of without breaking your "rule"

I don't like to be long-winded so I'll stop with just those two cons for now. I gave some examples of rules that are not the OPs but that was to help show some examples of how we have arrived at as good a set of rules in the US as you can get to avoid arguements.

Oh one last question, In your bar does everyone agree that it's not "dirty pool" to nudge the cue ball one inch behind your ball for a brutal snooker without getting a rail since it's within your rule set?

8 ball on the break tends to happen once in almost a hundred games, regardless of other balls falling in or not. So nobody breaks soft. Since I forgot to mention earlier that while racking it's the 8 ball that goes on the spot, it's nearly impossible to get it into a pocket from there. It's like winning the lottery.

Regarding the cue passing over the center of either corner pocket on a shot following a scratch, I've never seen anyone try to squeeze out more degrees while angling the cue than allowed. There was never a single argument about that one. You simply look bellow your cue, measure its position, and if it went too far you choose another ball to shoot instead.

On the last one, it's a perfectly valid shot. Even if someone gets annoyed, it certainly wouldn't lead to chairs flying. But I don't remember seeing any kind of fight about it.
 

Luxury

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
8 ball on the break tends to happen once in almost a hundred games, regardless of other balls falling in or not. So nobody breaks soft. Since I forgot to mention earlier that while racking it's the 8 ball that goes on the spot, it's nearly impossible to get it into a pocket from there. It's like winning the lottery.



Regarding the cue passing over the center of either corner pocket on a shot following a scratch, I've never seen anyone try to squeeze out more degrees while angling the cue than allowed. There was never a single argument about that one. You simply look bellow your cue, measure its position, and if it went too far you choose another ball to shoot instead.



On the last one, it's a perfectly valid shot. Even if someone gets annoyed, it certainly wouldn't lead to chairs flying. But I don't remember seeing any kind of fight about it.


I take it you guys don’t gamble much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
8 ball on the break tends to happen once in almost a hundred games, regardless of other balls falling in or not. So nobody breaks soft. Since I forgot to mention earlier that while racking it's the 8 ball that goes on the spot, it's nearly impossible to get it into a pocket from there. It's like winning the lottery.

Regarding the cue passing over the center of either corner pocket on a shot following a scratch, I've never seen anyone try to squeeze out more degrees while angling the cue than allowed. There was never a single argument about that one. You simply look bellow your cue, measure its position, and if it went too far you choose another ball to shoot instead.

On the last one, it's a perfectly valid shot. Even if someone gets annoyed, it certainly wouldn't lead to chairs flying. But I don't remember seeing any kind of fight about it.


Wow man, those rules are a trip.
Your bar is like a bizarro world of pool that hates anything pool related
 

jason

Unprofessional everything
Silver Member
Nobody who regularly plays in that bar would "force" those rules on others. They're not savages, they're pool players. And like I said, here we don't argue about rules. They're mostly the same everywhere. Minor differences can be settled before the game. Maybe where you're from there used to be trouble with the bar pool crowd. That would explain your prejudice that all bar players are drunks who start fights every now and then. Yes, an idiot can show up in a bar here as well, but it has nothing to do with pool. Pool by itself doesn't attract problematic crowd, quite the contrary.

I don't personally know anyone in your bar or even where your bar is freaking at. Your rules might work for your little circle jerk set of friends, but almost all here have disagreed with you. Again in small groups, almost anything can work even socialism :eek:. And yes, there is a possibility that your group would not "force" there stupid rules on others in a different bar, but I have seen many a fool step up to the bar table clueless about the proper rules and etiquette and try to change the rules to what there circle jerk friends do when they are alone.

Go to your little sh*t hole bar and play your little sh*t house rules and never visit anywhere else because you son are not a real pool player.
 

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
Not sure why everybody is bustin the OP's chops over their local rules. He said it is fun and quarters are lined up for other wanting to play. As long as you learn their rules, no problem.
...

...

Why? He asked.

"There you have it. Feel free to state your opinion about playing 8ball using these rules, your perception of the pros and cons of the game etc."
 

sbpoolleague

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If two players both settled to play by those (or any other) rules, why ban them from playing? They're not forcing anyone to play that way, and they'd most likely order some drinks while playing in your hypothetical bar.

My key point is that I would ban them if they did this on a BUSY night. If the action at the bar table was slow, who cares.

I would also ban anyone that plays any 8-ball game that lengthens the game time (once again, only on busy nights). For example: Call all shots, last pocket, bank the 8.

There's nothing more frustrating than watching two idiots try and bank the 8-ball for 30 minutes while you are waiting to play.
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
I don't personally know anyone in your bar or even where your bar is freaking at. Your rules might work for your little circle jerk set of friends, but almost all here have disagreed with you. Again in small groups, almost anything can work even socialism :eek:. And yes, there is a possibility that your group would not "force" there stupid rules on others in a different bar, but I have seen many a fool step up to the bar table clueless about the proper rules and etiquette and try to change the rules to what there circle jerk friends do when they are alone.

Go to your little sh*t hole bar and play your little sh*t house rules and never visit anywhere else because you son are not a real pool player.

It's funny to hear you talking about proper etiquette, then reading your final sentence. If I wanted to, I could claim that you're in fact not a real pool player, as casual players who play by different house/bar rules actually outnumber "serious" players who stick only to standardized rules and play in pool halls, so my "kind" are in majority. But I'm not going to do that. You're certainly a better pool player than I am. And I honestly don't give a damn if you think I'm not a pool player at all, or that the bar where I play is a sh*thole. You're free to state your opinion. You've seen many idiotic players in bars so you're hostile, I get it. Though I will say once again that the behavior of people here during a game of pool is no different than that of pool hall players. What bothers me is that you still say these rules belong to a small circle of my friends, while they're in fact widespread in multiple countries, and that I know nothing about "proper pool", when I've actually played standardized international 8ball enough times to know what I'm talking about.

My key point is that I would ban them if they did this on a BUSY night. If the action at the bar table was slow, who cares.

I would also ban anyone that plays any 8-ball game that lengthens the game time (once again, only on busy nights). For example: Call all shots, last pocket, bank the 8.

There's nothing more frustrating than watching two idiots try and bank the 8-ball for 30 minutes while you are waiting to play.

Those players still paid to enjoy their time at the table. The regulars in the bar would probably stop visiting if someone forced them to finish up their games as soon as possible. Yes, rarely the game around the 8 ball can last up to 20-30 minutes. Yes, people cheer when a player finally wins so they can get their turn at the table too. That doesn't mean that the crowd doesn't enjoy the spectacle of a drawn out fight. Best games I've both watched and played have lasted quite a while. When both sides pocket all their balls and are stuck on the 8, trying to outposition and outshoot each other, it's entertaining and exciting for the guests to watch, even when they have to wait for a time to play. In addition, on very busy nights players tend to pair up and play 2v2, so the games remain long and complex, but the wait time is much more acceptable.
 

aaronataylor

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well said, Push&Pool. While your bar rules don’t interest me, you are articulate in your opinions and respectful to others hostility. I respect that.
 

Balls

Big Brass Balls
Silver Member
barboxrules.com

I looked at your site, but it's incomplete as of now. Will you be writing about US bar rules or about variations from other parts of the world as well?

I did some updates to it last night. I would say it is directed at the US since the language includes US slang. I do have to do another language review anyways so maybe I'll clean it up more.

The object is to clarify the rules of the game in a way to provide the most income for the bar while still allowing the customers to enjoy the table while they are drinking.

I was thinking about making a special pro version mod for any unique ideas that might as the more experienced users here review and hopefully comment on it. Like something tricky or fun would be great.

And I need to add in some things to make it more fun for the staff and females.

And I need to read this whole thread over again and decide what to do about the banking the 8 drama. Maybe three turns and then anything goes.. idk, comments?

Thanks for checking it out.

barboxrules.com
 

Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
I did some updates to it last night. I would say it is directed at the US since the language includes US slang. I do have to do another language review anyways so maybe I'll clean it up more.

The object is to clarify the rules of the game in a way to provide the most income for the bar while still allowing the customers to enjoy the table while they are drinking.

I was thinking about making a special pro version mod for any unique ideas that might as the more experienced users here review and hopefully comment on it. Like something tricky or fun would be great.

And I need to add in some things to make it more fun for the staff and females.

And I need to read this whole thread over again and decide what to do about the banking the 8 drama. Maybe three turns and then anything goes.. idk, comments?

Thanks for checking it out.

barboxrules.com

Well, I've never played bank the 8, we only have last pocket here. But I guess if your goal is to speed up the game at all costs in order to gather as much profit for the bar, then you should completely ban banking the 8. Because if you give players 3 shots and then anything goes, they'll just spend the last shot making a defensive move in order not to risk leaving the 8 wide open for the incoming player once banking stops being necessary.

Having said that, I can tell you from my considerable last pocket experience that those games may last longer, but are a lot more fun and complex for both the players and the watchers. There's an entire new dimensions of tactics and skills being open to the players once those rules are active. I can only imagine that banking the 8 provides somewhat similar experience. So if it were my bar, I would certainly allow either version (whichever were more popular in my area) to be played freely. The bar where I play most often has no shortage of pool players or customers in general, and it's always been last pocket, with "no BiH" and "CB on the headspot" in addition, which make the games last even longer.
 

JazzyJeff87

AzB Plutonium Member
Silver Member
Well said, Push&Pool. While your bar rules don’t interest me, you are articulate in your opinions and respectful to others hostility. I respect that.

Yes PP all very well said and I’ve already said I admire your work here. Your piece of writing was the equivalent of a perfect turn-around take out shot. You knocked all balls to your side of the table and left none for your hapless opponent(s), you have 5 or 6 open shots from anywhere above the side pocket and 3 shots from anywhere below the side. The cue ball is nestled just so into the bare bones of a stack that is providing its last defensive coverage this rack and the other guys got nowhere to go. They’re pissed, steaming, possibly even flabbergasted.

But now you’re trying to hard, sinking into the persona and trying the “overly reasonable” approach. It’s no good for all involved. Soon you will find yourself posting regularly as P&P and you may even start playing by those rules...or even worse you may try to find someone else to play by them with you :yikes:

The situation is still salvageable howmever. Radio silence for a period, update & upgrade, maybe visit Europe to find out some cultural curiosities or whatever about how they actually play and add that into your shtick for authenticity/dramatic effect.

Keep on bangin homes.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
.. The cue ball is nestled just so into the bare bones of a stack that is providing its last defensive coverage this rack and the other guys got nowhere to go. They’re pissed, steaming, possibly even flabbergasted. ...
Suddenly, the opponent brightens up, remembering the special shot he's been practicing ever since he heard about it on AZB. He studies the rack carefully to find the exact line of attack. He chalks his cue with care, inspecting the smooth, blue layer minutely. He takes a measured five paces back along his line, much like a football kicker. He holds his stick at the ready in front. He takes one slow step forward and then faster, Faster, FASTER like a pole vaulter and with much the same stick position -- he charges the table -- the RAM SHOT. He hits the cue ball dead center and balls fly everywhere at 100 KPH. He gets six of them immediately into his pocket. He watches, a smile of satisfaction on his face as the last two balls in motion roll into the jaws of his pocket and lock in a lovely embrace, kiss for a couple of seconds and then drop out of sight together.

Of course this is all fantasy since P&P has never played one pocket and probably has no idea what either of our posts is about.
 
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ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
a hell of a player though!

...

Go to your little sh*t hole bar and play your little sh*t house rules and never visit anywhere else because you son are not a real pool player.



He may not be a pool player but he is a hell of a player having played this forum for almost a hundred posts in this one thread. He is now getting into having to make up stuff as he goes though which puts me in flashback mode.

I never did too much traveling to play pool, a few states and maybe a week or so give or take a few days. Aside from that, I played pool wherever other traveling brought me. Generally I found that along the gulf coast as far as I went the rules stayed much the same, maybe one or two additions or subtractions from the rule book. Traveling north or northeast the rules tended to get stranger and stranger.

The one rule change per rack Bob mentioned was pretty common too. Playing for small cash I generally bided my time. Soon at least a small group gathered around the table. "Lookit ol' Lefty putting one over on the stranger" with much snickering behind hands.

I would wait until "Lefty" forgot one of his rules he was making up on the spot when he was down on a critical shot. Then I would remind him and the crowd of his own rule. Generally there was at least a joker or two that would back me. Nothing funnier than busting somebody with their own rules!

While a hand written sign on the wall sometimes documented one local bar rule, I did once find a professionally painted sign on a bar room wall fully documenting the local weirdness. I longed for a camera in those days before cell phones to document the silliness of that sign. Those house rules were weird and apparently fully endorsed by the owner!

Hu
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's a Bar! They don't have gospel books or customers interested in reading.

Bar rules are so crazy I'm slowly making my own rules at barboxrules.com

So the thing here, how can you have rules written down for players that don't know the rules and make them up from word of mouth from other players? While documenting what these rules are is one thing, you can't actually put them out as real rules of the game since the whole point to those made up rules is that they are made up by people who don't know the real rules and are half remembering what some drunk friends or their uncle taught them. There are already established pool rules that are the same in 99% of pool halls and tournaments, outside of break rules, that deal with what a legal shot is, what the punishment for a foul is, where balls get placed, what equipment is called, etc...

Actually making a set of bar rules is like a computer pro writing a document for computer use based on what people do often instead of the real things to do. If a bunch of people start deleting random files form a computer because it's running slow, and they tell 20 people that, is that a "rule" that one should follow? Common people don't have the knowledge or expertise to create new rules for something they don't understand, no matter what our new liberal "everyone is right in their own way" society tries to tell people.

I took at peek at the site, outside of some grammar issues, your is not the same thing as you're, the rules for calling a shot don't have anything to do with having to spot a ball that went in by accident, even in a standard pool table. If you make a ball in the wrong pocket, it does not spot back up, you just lose your turn.

There was a funny Onion article about a person that thought he can become an architect because he walked around a bunch of buildings and that was his experience, this is players that barely know how to hold a cue stick passing down misinformation to others. Until one can discuss the differences between different rails, cloth, ball sets, etc... there should be no talk about changing the rules, at least not for anything "official" that can be pointed to. Unofficial official rules can't possibly exist, outside of documenting them. Like old time medicines. No one thinks putting cocaine in products makes them cure anything now, but it should be documented as a historical thing that was done. Not talking about you specifically, but in general. Bar rules are bar rules just because they change based on where you are and from player to player. Any good player can play another good player and can assume they know the rules of the game. When we play some random people you can never be sure of what they think is OK to do or not. Imagine playing baseball and dealing with local rules in every town. They put 1st base where 3rd base is and you need to run the opposite way but they don't tell you that till after you hit the ball, there are 4 strikes not 3, that you can't touch the ball unless it hops 4 times on the ground, and only 4 times. If it hops once and stops then it's a home run. I don't like chaos in my rules.

This is the #1 reason I avoid playing with random people unless I can see that they actually know what they are doing, it's more trouble than it's worth to try to figure out what they have in their heads for rules.
 
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Push&Pool

Professional Banger
Silver Member
So the thing here, how can you have rules written down for players that don't know the rules and make them up from word of mouth from other players? While documenting what these rules are is one thing, you can't actually put them out as real rules of the game since the whole point to those made up rules is that they are made up by people who don't know the real rules and are half remembering what some drunk friends or their uncle taught them. There are already established pool rules that are the same in 99% of pool halls and tournaments, outside of break rules, that deal with what a legal shot is, what the punishment for a foul is, where balls get placed, what equipment is called, etc...

Actually making a set of bar rules is like a computer pro writing a document for computer use based on what people do often instead of the real things to do. If a bunch of people start deleting random files form a computer because it's running slow, and they tell 20 people that, is that a "rule" that one should follow? Common people don't have the knowledge or expertise to create new rules for something they don't understand, no matter what our new liberal "everyone is right in their own way" society tries to tell people.

I took at peek at the site, outside of some grammar issues, your is not the same thing as you're, the rules for calling a shot don't have anything to do with having to spot a ball that went in by accident, even in a standard pool table. If you make a ball in the wrong pocket, it does not spot back up, you just lose your turn.

There was a funny Onion article about a person that thought he can become an architect because he walked around a bunch of buildings and that was his experience, this is players that barely know how to hold a cue stick passing down misinformation to others. Until one can discuss the differences between different rails, cloth, ball sets, etc... there should be no talk about changing the rules, at least not for anything "official" that can be pointed to. Unofficial official rules can't possibly exist, outside of documenting them. Like old time medicines. No one thinks putting cocaine in products makes them cure anything now, but it should be documented as a historical thing that was done. Not talking about you specifically, but in general. Bar rules are bar rules just because they change based on where you are and from player to player. Any good player can play another good player and can assume they know the rules of the game. When we play some random people you can never be sure of what they think is OK to do or not. Imagine playing baseball and dealing with local rules in every town. They put 1st base where 3rd base is and you need to run the opposite way but they don't tell you that till after you hit the ball, there are 4 strikes not 3, that you can't touch the ball unless it hops 4 times on the ground, and only 4 times. If it hops once and stops then it's a home run. I don't like chaos in my rules.

This is the #1 reason I avoid playing with random people unless I can see that they actually know what they are doing, it's more trouble than it's worth to try to figure out what they have in their heads for rules.

While I also think it unlikely that bar players will google these rules once they're completed if they find themselves in the middle of an argument, some bar owners might find them online and have them read to the players who are not familiar with pool rules in general. So nothing bad can come out of Balls running that website.

In our own area those rules would be redundant, since I already said that everyone knows the local/regional rules, and is ready to teach any newcomer about them. With fights and arguments over the rules being rare here, additional online standardization might not be a top priority.

Having said the above, I'd still love to see them documented on barboxrules.com or on any other site for that matter. If for no other reason, then for the players and pool enthusiasts from all around the world to read about them and potentially try them out. Some may find 8ball played by those rules to be a highly balanced, complex and fun game.
 
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