What is the Beef With Dragon Promotions and The Predator 10 Ball Championships?

I will take a small stab at replying to your inquiry. :thumbup:

I agree with much of what you write, Lenny. There is a lot of truth in the fact that anyone who contributes to the industry to make it better, then, of course, that is a good thing for sure. I don't think there is any disputing that.

Without getting into specifics, some people have long memories, and it may be difficult to forget some events that transpired in times gone by. I am not saying this is right or wrong, but just stating this may be one reason for the consternation, for lack of a better word.

There is one school of thought -- not mine -- that DP and/or CW and/or CL participate on this forum for advertising purposes. Some members of this forum may find this offensive. Why? I don't know. In recent times, I see many pool entities using this forum as a place of advertising.

Reading the words of Jerry Forsyth, I am of the opinion that AzBilliards wants to promote pool, even if it means assisting industry members, some of whom could be considered as so-called "competitors." In other words, it might be that AzBilliards wants to help the industry grow at all costs, and that is commendable.

Now my personal opinion as it pertains to the red rep and DP. I have never given red rep to DP and/or any of its associates on this forum. I do believe, though, that some DP associates post on this forum as non-DP-associated people, and the only thing they seem to post about is DP-related items. It is as if all their posts surround DP and/or anything associated DP. Their posts are motivated by their association with DP.

So, in sum, I agree with you, Lenny. I think it is hard for some folks who have been wronged to let go. Again, I am not condoning this line of thinking. Rather, I am just putting it out there as a "why" for you, since you asked.

Gee, it wouldn't have anything to do with CW breaking into Sweet Marissa's hotel room, getting naked and waking her up (without her consent) now would it?

JAM makes a good point with the non-reciprocal use of the boards. Look aat JBCases for a nice contrast.

I am torn, there have been so many examples of favoritism and bullying and abuses of power...but I am also highly impressed with the vehicle that continues to emerge.

Will DP ever shed the stigma of the UPA? I hope so, as any Players' Union has *no* business promoting events.

SpiderWebComm said:

Gee, it wouldn't have anything to do with CW breaking into Sweet Marissa's hotel room, getting naked and waking her up (without her consent) now would it?

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Or you could just yank it off.

Well, I think its not just that DP uses AzBilliards as an advertising tool. It's the fact that every time they make a thread, it seems like they disappear. They come here to get people excited about thier events, but when people want to know more they ignore to log back on. I think people just don't like the idea that they join the forums to benefit themselves without helping others. How much of a commitment is it to make a reply to your own threads?

The only problem with Dragon Promotions is CW and his business tactics.

When at the head of the UPA, he drove promoters out of the pool tournament business. As head of DP, he continues to use the same bully tactics.

Recently, DP made a press release announcement of a tournament in Asia, indicating that it was sanctioned by the WPA. At the time of the release, there was no sanctioning and, in fact, the WPA had told DP that they would not sanction the event because of a conflict in dates with another event in Asia. DP was attempting to bully the WPA into accepting their dates. In this case, the WPA did not give in and DP eventually changed their dates and got the sanctioning.

Yes, the events they promote are welcome, but CW's tactics are not.

IamMark said:

Well, I think its not just that DP uses AzBilliards as an advertising tool. It's the fact that every time they make a thread, it seems like they disappear. They come here to get people excited about thier events, but when people want to know more they ignore to log back on. I think people just don't like the idea that they join the forums to benefit themselves without helping others. How much of a commitment is it to make a reply to your own threads?

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I think there is some validity in what you say, but it is difficult to know what makes some operations tick.

Recently, within my own industry, I have been extremely busy. I am chief cook and bottle washer sometimes, and it is difficult to juggle all operations of the business when things are hectic.

For example, sometimes I am racing against the clock, trying to meet deadlines, get jobs out, and then I am interrupted with a phone call. I must take off my worker bee hat and put on my receptionist hat. I find it difficult to be patient and responsive to the callers sometimes, as the only thing I want to do is get off the phone. LOL!

That said, it is difficult to let go and allow somebody else to handle the operations. In an ideal world, it would be wonderful to have an accounting department, an advertising department, a human resources department, a production department, et cetera, but not everybody can afford and/or trust others to get the job done right.

I only mention the above-referenced as food for thought. I empathize totally with businesses trying to do the best they can with what resources they have available. It would be nice, however, if DP is going to post on this forum, that they could at least post a little follow-up. It would go a long way!

I don't like the fact they rarely respond to inquiries, but I have a feeling they have so much going on that they probably do not have time to deal with long discussions about details that may or may not have been finalized. I think that the industry is better off with their events than if we didn't have them.

As to the personal incident mentioned by some, since I wasn't there I am going to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Rich R. said:

The only problem with Dragon Promotions is CW and his business tactics.

When at the head of the UPA, he drove promoters out of the pool tournament business. As head of DP, he continues to use the same bully tactics.

Recently, DP made a press release announcement of a tournament in Asia, indicating that it was sanctioned by the WPA. At the time of the release, there was no sanctioning and, in fact, the WPA had told DP that they would not sanction the event because of a conflict in dates with another event in Asia. DP was attempting to bully the WPA into accepting their dates. In this case, the WPA did not give in and DP eventually changed their dates and got the sanctioning.

Yes, the events they promote are welcome, but CW's tactics are not.

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I worked closely with CW (even went to lunch with him) at the Bike a few yrs helping run the tournament also, for CW I raffled all the cues & cases (recieved from the event sponsors, I also got many pros to sign the cases, some wouldn't, here's why) and I got my 10% commish every night. The players expressed how unfair it was that CW pocketed the remaining 90% of dollars gathered from cue sales for himself and not the players. The next time I saw CW in I think Derby City I was invisible....he looked directly at me as I was expecting him to say hi and NOTHING but a blank expression, this aspect of another tells me all I need to know about that person. There's probably not another harder working person doing what he's doing out there, but there's allot of integrity that is needed to be truly successful.

integrity seems to be the right word

Island Drive said:

I worked closely with CW (even went to lunch with him) at the Bike a few yrs helping run the tournament also, for CW I raffled all the cues & cases (recieved from the event sponsors, I also got many pros to sign the cases, some wouldn't, here's why) and I got my 10% commish every night. The players expressed how unfair it was that CW pocketed the remaining 90% of dollars gathered from cue sales for himself and not the players. The next time I saw CW in I think Derby City I was invisible....he looked directly at me as I was expecting him to say hi and NOTHING but a blank expression, this aspect of another tells me all I need to know about that person. There's probably not another harder working person doing what he's doing out there, but there's allot of integrity that is needed to be truly successful.

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Integrity seems to be the right word and charlie's seems very questionable both in his professional and personal life. Justly or not, everything around him receives some of the taint. I myself don't split hairs between charlie and dragon promotions. If someone partners with dragon promotions I can't lend my support to that event while I may very well support other events of theirs when they are not partnered with dragon and charlie.

Hu

I heard in the next mixed event he was giving out a special deal on room keys to the highest finishing female participants.

SpiderWebComm said:

Gee, it wouldn't have anything to do with CW breaking into Sweet Marissa's hotel room, getting naked and waking her up (without her consent) now would it?

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Seriously.

The fact Charlie won't answer questions about it but does his free ads at an ever increasing rate, ESPECIALLY with ladies like Cha and Shannelle connected to him is why I think most people keep red repping him.

Why would anyone NOT have a problem with a guy creeping on ladies like that? Didn't he come back and start fiddling with the lock again later?

Chohan got tortured on here for doing something very stupid, but I'd rather be a guy carrying a stupid plant around that's legal in a number of states than be some j*rk off who tries that on ladies. What's next, spiking a girls drink?

bud green said:

Seriously.

The fact Charlie won't answer questions about it but does his free ads at an ever increasing rate, ESPECIALLY with ladies like Cha and Shannelle connected to him is why I think most people keep red repping him.

Why would anyone NOT have a problem with a guy creeping on ladies like that? Didn't he come back and start fiddling with the lock again later?

Chohan got tortured on here for doing something very stupid, but I'd rather be a guy carrying a stupid plant around that's legal in a number of states than be some j*rk off who tries that on ladies. What's next, spiking a girls drink?

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So was he given/ did he have a key t0 the girls room?

Here is the best thread on the Dragon Promotions/UPA/Charlie Williams saga. The Merissa Topic is one i won't touch with a 10 foot pole. I had a series of perverse adult jokes flash through my mind when I wrote "10 foot Pole". But I am not sure if Merissa would say it was that long? I just could not resist that one little pot shot. Please forgive me!

But related to pool here is the link.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=827070#post827070

Since this posting some pro's have been sponsored by DP and split their winnings with Dragon Promotions. The terms are pretty harsh i have heard but when no one else is stepping up and you are desperate and willing to agree to the terms then there should be no complaints!

But, many have gotten international invitations as a result of the relationship and even shanelle has appeared on TV despite her ranking level being lower then other pro women to do trick shots on the tv special( do a search and you will find it on AZB). In many ways its all about who you know!!!!! Plus, with a slice of the pool/billiard pie being valuable everyone is trying to support themselves!!!! Pool players got to eat too!

And along with everything else that has been discussed, I think it's the fact that Charlie changed his AZB log in from "koreandragon" that had a ton of red (and seemed to be earned) to "DP.News". I'm guessing everyone just wanted to make sure his new name caught up with the old. After all, we take Memorial Day to remember the troops and what they did for the USA, so this is our way of remembering things Charlie has done, and allegedly done, in the past to our Pool community. Even if he did try to run from them.

Dave

12squared said:

And along with everything else that has been discussed, I think it's the fact that Charlie changed his AZB log in from "koreandragon" that had a ton of red (and seemed to be earned) to "DP.News". ...he did try to run from them.

Dave

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I get the impression tha tthe DP News handle is used by the Promo group...association still there, obviously.

12squared said:

And along with everything else that has been discussed, I think it's the fact that Charlie changed his AZB log in from that had a ton of red (and seemed to be earned) to . I'm guessing everyone just wanted to make sure his new name caught up with the old. After all, we take Memorial Day to remember the troops and what they did for the USA, so this is our way of remembering things Charlie has done, and allegedly done, in the past to our Pool community. Even if he did try to run from them.

Dave

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I don't think log in was changed. The "koreandragon" account still appears to be active. "DP.News" I guess could be considered a second account.

rackem said:

I don't think log in was changed. The "koreandragon" account still appears to be active. "DP.News" I guess could be considered a second account.

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I thought having multiple accounts was grounds for a banning.