FargoRate software for purchase?

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm not part of any league... but I hear talk on here by Mr Page of League Management Software (LMS) as a way for people to input data into fargorate.

Is this something I can buy on my own (without being part of a league)? If so, what functionality does it have? Can it be used to dig into a player's ratings, and see their actual match and opponent history?

Thanks.
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
I'm not part of any league... but I hear talk on here by Mr Page of League Management Software (LMS) as a way for people to input data into fargorate.

Is this something I can buy on my own (without being part of a league)? If so, what functionality does it have? Can it be used to dig into a player's ratings, and see their actual match and opponent history?

Thanks.

Realistically, I am still waiting for Mike to fix the fairmatch fargorate site. If you search for a player with a generic name, like "Smith", the scroll stops somewhere around "Allan". If you were to try to use a first name partial as well, such as, oh shall we say... "Smith, Dan", no results are returned. So, the only way I have been able to find Danny Smith's Fargorate is to look him up on the USA top 100.

I am not sure if it's the way the backend database is structured, or just poor search coding, but for Fargorate to be as popular as it is, it does not seem like this site has had a lot of work done on it after it got put up.

I tried to post in some Fargorate related topics on here, but Mike Page hasn't really been responsive. I am pretty sure I reached out to him on here or Facebook to ask if I was doing something wrong, but no response.
 

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Realistically, I am still waiting for Mike to fix the fairmatch fargorate site. If you search for a player with a generic name, like "Smith", the scroll stops somewhere around "Allan". If you were to try to use a first name partial as well, such as, oh shall we say... "Smith, Dan", no results are returned. So, the only way I have been able to find Danny Smith's Fargorate is to look him up on the USA top 100.

I am not sure if it's the way the backend database is structured, or just poor search coding, but for Fargorate to be as popular as it is, it does not seem like this site has had a lot of work done on it after it got put up.

I tried to post in some Fargorate related topics on here, but Mike Page hasn't really been responsive. I am pretty sure I reached out to him on here or Facebook to ask if I was doing something wrong, but no response.

I was actually wondering if the league management system has all of the functionality you just described (and the ones I mentioned) that is missing from the fairmatch site. I’d buy it in a minute if it did, even though I’d never play in a league again if you put a gun to my face! :)
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
I was actually wondering if the league management system has all of the functionality you just described (and the ones I mentioned) that is missing from the fairmatch site. I’d buy it in a minute if it did, even though I’d never play in a league again if you put a gun to my face! :)

Realistically, I think Mike Page is missing a HUGE revenue stream, with the way he is handling Fargorate... The entire Fargorate system maps extremely closely to the rating system used by the United States Chess Federation (USCF).

The USCF allows local clubs to run tournaments of any size, and the results of the tournaments are inserted into the USCF database and do affect ratings.

It seems like it would be simple enough to write a $20.00 app that charges $5.00 per tournament, and inserts results directly into the Fargorate database. That way, players can set up their own tournaments and get THEMSELVES into Fargorate, without having to worry about going to a national level event, or to worry about whether their particular league operator pays for the Fargorate league management software. It would only take 1 or 2 players with preexisting Fargorates in the tourney to get valid ratings for the rest.

I mean, realistically, Fargorate has the potential to make Mike Page a millionaire within 2-3 years, with minimal work required past getting the software out there. Given that the value is in the database itself, no one can come in and write another app to displace him.

There are a very large number of European players with no Fargorates, because they never play in tournaments/leagues that use Fargorate. I can pretty much tell you right now that Germans would JUMP at the chance to run their local tournaments/leagues and get the results into Fargorate, if they could just get the software. The Germans LOVE measuring their improvement, and they don't gamble much, so I doubt they'd care much about getting their speed "clocked".

Shoot, if Mike Page would let me buy a franchise or something like that, I would actually work on getting Fargorate out to the German league system.

Fargorate has been around WAY too long for it to be as small scale as it is. The USCF rating system is the one thing responsible for keeping people involved with chess. People will study/practice for many hours just to see a 50 point increase in their USCF rating. I see no reason why this would be any different with pool. The issue is, the only way people have of getting themselves into the system right now is through national events, and national leagues. If this were the case in chess, USCF ratings would not be nearly as attractive.
 

JC

Coos Cues
I was actually wondering if the league management system has all of the functionality you just described (and the ones I mentioned) that is missing from the fairmatch site. I’d buy it in a minute if it did, even though I’d never play in a league again if you put a gun to my face! :)

You can through LMS see the player match history of any player in the world. It's not a built in function designed for that but you can do it by manipulation.

As far as I know without LMS there is nothing available to the public to access this data.

JC
 

JC

Coos Cues
Realistically, I am still waiting for Mike to fix the fairmatch fargorate site. If you search for a player with a generic name, like "Smith", the scroll stops somewhere around "Allan". If you were to try to use a first name partial as well, such as, oh shall we say... "Smith, Dan", no results are returned. So, the only way I have been able to find Danny Smith's Fargorate is to look him up on the USA top 100.

I am not sure if it's the way the backend database is structured, or just poor search coding, but for Fargorate to be as popular as it is, it does not seem like this site has had a lot of work done on it after it got put up.

I tried to post in some Fargorate related topics on here, but Mike Page hasn't really been responsive. I am pretty sure I reached out to him on here or Facebook to ask if I was doing something wrong, but no response.

Russ the results are listed last name, comma, first name but not the search term.

Type in the first name or as much as you know of it, space and the last name as much as you know of it. Looking for Daniel Smith? Type in Dani Smi and you will get the results you're looking for.

JC
 

ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Russ the results are listed last name, comma, first name but not the search term.

Type in the first name or as much as you know of it, space and the last name as much as you know of it. Looking for Daniel Smith? Type in Dani Smi and you will get the results you're looking for.

JC

So... Poor search coding. Search structure should be the same as the result structure. Last name, comma, first name. I can't say that most would intuitively look at the result display and be able to make the logical leap that "Dani Smith", no comma, would be a valid search structure. Most every searchable database like this would use the LastName, Comma, FirstName search structure.

I mean, I know it's Mike Page's baby, but there is a LOT of money to be made off of Fargorate, both domestically and internationally. He ought to be able to pay the few hundred dollars it would take to fix that site.

Edit: JC, thanks for the heads up on the search structure, tho.. It makes the site a lot easier to use.
 

sixpack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So... Poor search coding. Search structure should be the same as the result structure. Last name, comma, first name. I can't say that most would intuitively look at the result display and be able to make the logical leap that "Dani Smith", no comma, would be a valid search structure. Most every searchable database like this would use the LastName, Comma, FirstName search structure.

I mean, I know it's Mike Page's baby, but there is a LOT of money to be made off of Fargorate, both domestically and internationally. He ought to be able to pay the few hundred dollars it would take to fix that site.

Edit: JC, thanks for the heads up on the search structure, tho.. It makes the site a lot easier to use.

Only to a techie. Most users would type in Dan Smith so I agree with the way they structured it even though I'm a techie.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Realistically, I think Mike Page is missing a HUGE revenue stream, with the way he is handling Fargorate... The entire Fargorate system maps extremely closely to the rating system used by the United States Chess Federation (USCF).

The USCF allows local clubs to run tournaments of any size, and the results of the tournaments are inserted into the USCF database and do affect ratings.

It seems like it would be simple enough to write a $20.00 app that charges $5.00 per tournament, and inserts results directly into the Fargorate database. That way, players can set up their own tournaments and get THEMSELVES into Fargorate, without having to worry about going to a national level event, or to worry about whether their particular league operator pays for the Fargorate league management software. It would only take 1 or 2 players with preexisting Fargorates in the tourney to get valid ratings for the rest.

I mean, realistically, Fargorate has the potential to make Mike Page a millionaire within 2-3 years, with minimal work required past getting the software out there. Given that the value is in the database itself, no one can come in and write another app to displace him.

There are a very large number of European players with no Fargorates, because they never play in tournaments/leagues that use Fargorate. I can pretty much tell you right now that Germans would JUMP at the chance to run their local tournaments/leagues and get the results into Fargorate, if they could just get the software. The Germans LOVE measuring their improvement, and they don't gamble much, so I doubt they'd care much about getting their speed "clocked".

Shoot, if Mike Page would let me buy a franchise or something like that, I would actually work on getting Fargorate out to the German league system.

Fargorate has been around WAY too long for it to be as small scale as it is. The USCF rating system is the one thing responsible for keeping people involved with chess. People will study/practice for many hours just to see a 50 point increase in their USCF rating. I see no reason why this would be any different with pool. The issue is, the only way people have of getting themselves into the system right now is through national events, and national leagues. If this were the case in chess, USCF ratings would not be nearly as attractive.

Millionaire? Pfft. I say billionaire!

I hope they do find a good way to make some money on it, they deserve it. I think they were talking about tournament software they were working on. It's hardly "simple enough" to do it, though, or just a matter of paying "a few hundred dollars to fix it" lol.
 
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ShortBusRuss

Short Bus Russ - C Player
Silver Member
Millionaire? Pfft. I say billionaire!

I hope they do find a good way to make some money on it, they deserve it. I think they were talking about tournament software they were working on. It's hardly "simple enough" to do it, though, or just a matter of paying "a few hundred dollars to fix it" lol.

The search function could be fixed by simply doing a small code change that runs the search both ways. Using both first name and last name as search keys against the first text string the user has typed in. It would not increase the search overhead signficantly, as there are not that many intersection of names that could be used as both first names and last names.

And if there are intersections in a specific search? Return both results.

And as far as building the tournament (not league management) software, there are many many instances of tournament software that tracks results of each match and records historical results for each player. Many of these are even open source, so one can look at the code and reuse bits and pieces of it. It is a simple matter of creating a database field in the tournament software that you can input Fargorate number in. And for new players, the tournament software would be programmed to reach out to the main Fargorate database, check for open player numbers, and assign/create/reserve a spot in the main Fargorate database. Now, after the tournament is complete, simply run the Fargorate algorithm against the matches exported out of the software. Mike already has ingestion code for tourney results. All that would be required is minor code to export results out of the tournament software in the right format.

As far as technology is concerned.. Anything is "simple" if you throw enough money at it. I am not talkiing millions here. One can pay $10,000-$20,000 for pretty robust code and a month of support if needed. It is so easy to monetize Fargorate that that amount of money is a drop in the bucket.

And if it seems like I am being a little nitpicky on pushing the timeframe, keep in mind.. Pool halls are closing every week in America. Anything that encourages people to practice more could create a mini boom in America.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Mike has given his position on this;
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=439214

Ingenpool has a way to get games in but then there is that requirement of peer review
of what games are coming in, the "attesting" of the games on a global scale,
not a blockchain but it sure feels like it.
Myself, I'm optimistic that Ingenpool will pull through with what I would like to see and use.
 

Dan_B

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I hope I'm close on this, he did mention a name I wasn't familiar with, he, mike, didn't
seem to be real big on them either however, there is the bcapool league that has their
application for a league slot, its $200, not sure if you pay before you learn if your
area/house is available or what. The way I understand it, the LMS is part of the League
Operator package.
You'll have the league operator requirement's where all things are public.
 
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gutshot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Type in first name last name with no commas. For example, dan smith or danny smith and he comes right up. It's not a coding problem, it's operator error.

Realistically, I am still waiting for Mike to fix the fairmatch fargorate site. If you search for a player with a generic name, like "Smith", the scroll stops somewhere around "Allan". If you were to try to use a first name partial as well, such as, oh shall we say... "Smith, Dan", no results are returned. So, the only way I have been able to find Danny Smith's Fargorate is to look him up on the USA top 100.
 
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Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Try this......
 

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Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I should prob test this claim first...but I believe if you want to input forename (x) and surname (y) the correct syntax is
x y
and not
y, x

Iirc, I noticed this at some point.

I'd like to be able to drill down into the individuals' stats too.

Realistically, I am still waiting for Mike to fix the fairmatch fargorate site. If you search for a player with a generic name, like "Smith", the scroll stops somewhere around "Allan". If you were to try to use a first name partial as well, such as, oh shall we say... "Smith, Dan", no results are returned. So, the only way I have been able to find Danny Smith's Fargorate is to look him up on the USA top 100.

I am not sure if it's the way the backend database is structured, or just poor search coding, but for Fargorate to be as popular as it is, it does not seem like this site has had a lot of work done on it after it got put up.

I tried to post in some Fargorate related topics on here, but Mike Page hasn't really been responsive. I am pretty sure I reached out to him on here or Facebook to ask if I was doing something wrong, but no response.
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Where would you people be without ini?

(I just read the rest of the thread)

I should prob test this claim first...but I believe if you want to input forename (x) and surname (y) the correct syntax is
x y
and not
y, x

Iirc, I noticed this at some point.

I'd like to be able to drill down into the individuals' stats too.
 
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