Heavy Pool Cue
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Heavy Pool Cue - 02-18-2020, 07:10 PM

I have this pool cue that weighs 21 ounces. I would like to get it down to 19 ounces. I've never cored a pool cue before, but think this might be a good opportunity. Obviously, if not done properly, I destroy the pool cue. The Butt is solid wood and I'm being told it looks like Goncalo Alves (57 lbs/ft3). Before I commit to doing this, I wanted to see if there were other options that I should consider. I do want to maintain the wrapless approach. for coring, I'll need to purchase tooling for coring deeper than my present capabilities. I presently have a Deluxe Hightower Lathe with the smaller boring bars. I read that coring involves gun drills with forced air (too cool the wood and blow out chips). Once the butt is cored, what wood is better suited for the installed dowel (obviously a wood that is lighter) and how do I go about figuring how deep to bore to obtain the necessary 2 ounce reduction. I hope this is enough information to get the conversation started. Thank you in advance for any and all info.

Cheers

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PRED
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02-18-2020, 07:47 PM

You will destroy the cue if you attempt to core it.


IRATUS VULGUS
  
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02-19-2020, 02:15 AM

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Originally Posted by PRED View Post
You will destroy the cue if you attempt to core it.
Then I will not be coring it. Last thing I want to do is destroy this beautiful Pool Cue, but 21 ounces is to heavy for most players I know, including myself. The joint measures .865" and the butt measures 1.250". I suppose turning it down would be my next option?
  
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02-19-2020, 05:46 AM

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Originally Posted by Lizardking View Post
Then I will not be coring it. Last thing I want to do is destroy this beautiful Pool Cue, but 21 ounces is to heavy for most players I know, including myself. The joint measures .865" and the butt measures 1.250". I suppose turning it down would be my next option?
Hi Lizard
You can do the work from the bottom of the butt. If you don't have a gun drill you can step drill it. You'll might have to lose the butt cap if you go up to 3/4" but you might not. Go up to 8 to 10 inches at a 5/8" hole and weigh it before you epoxy the dowell in. Then a 3/4" hole if you have to. Take your time and drill then bore a starter hole to help keep your drill bit from walking. My smaller boring bar will do 3 1/4" deep at a 1/2" hole. It helps. Obviously make sure your cue is being held straight.
Good luck.


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Michael Webb
  
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02-19-2020, 06:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
Hi Lizard
You can do the work from the bottom of the butt. If you don't have a gun drill you can step drill it. You'll might have to lose the butt cap if you go up to 3/4" but you might not. Go up to 8 to 10 inches at a 5/8" hole and weigh it before you epoxy the dowell in. Then a 3/4" hole if you have to. Take your time and drill then bore a starter hole to help keep your drill bit from walking. My smaller boring bar will do 3 1/4" deep at a 1/2" hole. It helps. Obviously make sure your cue is being held straight.
Good luck.
Thank You!! STARTER HOLES!!! I really like the idea of starter holes as I致e seen my drills flex before. Several other posts mention starter holes, but I admit, I知 a little slow sometimes. your response is fairly close to what I was envisioning. I actually installed the butt cap on an installed tenon. Unfortunately, I did not give weight much thought before I pursued this endeavor. Alls not lost, I知 just having fun learning and have no issue with making mistakes, as long as I learn from them and not destroy anymore blanks. I知 not happy with the buttcap and joint collars anyway, so I知 going to redo those as well. What wood do you suggest I use for a dowel? Thank you again!!
  
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02-19-2020, 07:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizardking View Post
Thank You!! STARTER HOLES!!! I really like the idea of starter holes as I’ve seen my drills flex before. Several other posts mention starter holes, but I admit, I’m a little slow sometimes. your response is fairly close to what I was envisioning. I actually installed the butt cap on an installed tenon. Unfortunately, I did not give weight much thought before I pursued this endeavor. Alls not lost, I’m just having fun learning and have no issue with making mistakes, as long as I learn from them and not destroy anymore blanks. I’m not happy with the buttcap and joint collars anyway, so I’m going to redo those as well. What wood do you suggest I use for a dowel? Thank you again!!
Learning from doing is the best training aid.
Starter hole:
Drill a smaller hole, then bore to make sure its true, mini boring bars are available. Maybe Mr. Hightower offers them. So you might have to start with a micro 100 boring bar, they go up to 1 1/4 deep at a .200 hole minimum. That will help you. For 1/2" and above holes, I switch to a larger shank boring bar 3/8" shank by 3". The deeper you want to bore, the bigger the shank.
I'm basing this help on the fact you have minimum equipment.
Next
The dowell!
What ever size you settle on. Turn the dowell but keep it over sized. Hopefull you have a table saw. Even a little one is fine. Set your fence for half the width of the dowell then set your blade height to make 2 glue relief channels.
Please use a paddle to hold it down while you run it thru.
After that add glue rings the length of the piece getting inserted. Then turn your dowell to size after your hole is completed, you might have to take small passes on the diwell til you reach a comfortable snug fit.
Epoxy
Slow drying is MY preferred. Fill the hole at least half way, hold the cue flat and use a smaller dowell to swirl the epoxy around as it comes out. Brush the dowell with the epoxy then feed it in.
Done!
Good luck


Best Wishes
Michael Webb

Last edited by Michael Webb; 02-19-2020 at 07:18 AM.
  
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Drill a lot
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Drill a lot - 02-19-2020, 08:52 AM

First I want you.to visualize a pool cue shaft that weights 4 oz.
Then think, I am going have to remove half that much mass from the inside of the butt.

That is going to be a big hole.

Then think how much the dowel is going to weigh.

It can be done, but it will require a much larger hole in the butt than a person first imagined.
  
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02-19-2020, 09:32 AM

More questions from me

What happens if you drill & don't add a dowel?
My perception as a woodworker (not cuemaker) is that there is no harm & the butt might be more stable. Drilling with no core removes the neutral axis, and hence differential response (small changes) in the wood at any point around the circumference has less effect on potential distortion.

IOW, drilling a round blank may release stress that causes it to distort somewhat. However a round blank finished straight, with a center drilled/bored hole could (should?) be more stable. I/m thinking a bore that does not reach/compromise the splice area, and still has "thick" walls? Say a 5/8" hole.

If a dowel is installed, should the vertical grain be parallel with the vertical grain in the hole? Or should it be at 90ー?

A typical cue butt wood weighs about 50 - 65 lbs/ft^3
1 cu ft = 1728 cu inches.

E.g., Bocote weighs about 53 lbs /ft^3 = 848oz/cu ft

848oz/1728 cu in = .49 oz/cu in.
Call it 1/2 ounce per cubic inch.

1 inch length of 5/8 bore =.31 cu inch (less than 1/3 cu inch)

So it will take about 6" depth of bore at 5/8" diameter to remove about 1 ounce from a bocote butt.

3/4" bore = .44 cu in/inch length so it should take about 4-5/8" depth to remove 1 oz. in bocote.

If you glue back in a wood that weighs 1/2 what is removed, (say a stiff straight grain material like Douglas fir or Sitka spruce) it will take twice the depth of bore to lose the 1 oz. Epoxy weighs about .55 oz/cu inch, so the deeper the hole and the relief grooves, the more that factors back in, too.

PS ; genuinely hoping to learn here from those who have gone before. Not argumentive. I can do some of the arithmetic, what does it mean in real life?

Do cuemakers use stiff soft woods for coring? if not, what core woods are good that would loose significant weight?

smt
  
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02-19-2020, 09:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by desi2960 View Post
First I want you.to visualize a pool cue shaft that weights 4 oz.
Then think, I am going have to remove half that much mass from the inside of the butt.

That is going to be a big hole.

Then think how much the dowel is going to weigh.

It can be done, but it will require a much larger hole in the butt than a person first imagined.
Thank you, I知 visualizing. May I ask what wood type you would use for such a big hole? My thoughts are that maple at. 44lbs/ft3, would not get me down the (2) ounces I need. Is there other options of wood that weigh lighter. I知 sure there are advantages and disadvantages from one species too another, but there must be a species of wood that is used commonly for this purpose.
  
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02-19-2020, 09:40 AM

Not a cuemaker but I think you can save around an ounce changing to a G-10 pin. Don't know if that's an option for you but it can shave off some weight.


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02-19-2020, 09:42 AM

PPS to my post above - maybe this has been addressed but i don't see it -

If that is a 3/8"-10 pin, just changing to a G10 will lose an ounce.
It will slightly change the balance of the cue more rearward.
So changing the pin along with some drilling might get the same balance and lose the weight you want.

smt

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02-19-2020, 11:03 AM

Removing 2 ounces by boring and then coring will be quite the challenge!

My first question, as your cuemaker, would be how well do you like the thick butt of the cue?

You could turn the cue down to .840 at the joint and 1.22-.25 at the butt. Weigh the cue and then use a gun drill to take out the amount needed to reach 2-2.5 ounces. You could then foam the cored hole. Keep in mind that, depending on what you choose, the finish material and the foam will add some weight. This is why I gave variations of weight that you can deal with as you work on the cue.

Lastly, I would probably use a .700 approx. coring drill and take material out farther up the butt.

If you do not wish to change the taper, the G2 pin and coring without adding a lighter wood plug would be the solution IMO.

The pin change may change what you perceive as "the hit".

Last edited by rhinobywilhite; 02-19-2020 at 11:05 AM. Reason: added info
  
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02-19-2020, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
Learning from doing is the best training aid.
Starter hole:
Drill a smaller hole, then bore to make sure its true, mini boring bars are available. Maybe Mr. Hightower offers them. So you might have to start with a micro 100 boring bar, they go up to 1 1/4 deep at a .200 hole minimum. That will help you. For 1/2" and above holes, I switch to a larger shank boring bar 3/8" shank by 3". The deeper you want to bore, the bigger the shank.
I'm basing this help on the fact you have minimum equipment.
Next
The dowell!
What ever size you settle on. Turn the dowell but keep it over sized. Hopefull you have a table saw. Even a little one is fine. Set your fence for half the width of the dowell then set your blade height to make 2 glue relief channels.
Please use a paddle to hold it down while you run it thru.
After that add glue rings the length of the piece getting inserted. Then turn your dowell to size after your hole is completed, you might have to take small passes on the diwell til you reach a comfortable snug fit.
Epoxy
Slow drying is MY preferred. Fill the hole at least half way, hold the cue flat and use a smaller dowell to swirl the epoxy around as it comes out. Brush the dowell with the epoxy then feed it in.
Done!
Good luck
Starter Hole:
I completely understand the starter hole approach. I have the correct boring bars for holes up to 1/2. I actually have boring bars with 3/8 shank, but I need to make a tool holder for them. This was very good information relative to bored hole size.

The Dowel:
I have been employing the glue relief grooves since I read one of your previous posts were you mentioned them. I知 still curious what wood type/species you would recommend I use for the dowel.

Epoxy:
I went to school on epoxy a few weeks ago and have not had any issues with West System 105/206. West System 105/205 if I want a fast cure.
  
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02-19-2020, 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRED View Post
You will destroy the cue if you attempt to core it.

I was thinking the same thing, plus 2 OUNCES is a HUGE AMOUNT OF WEIGHT, if you remove that the balance point will change.

Go to some the post office with a hand full of change, and weight out 2.0 OZ in coinage, place in zip lock bag. That will give you an idea of what the Weight you want out is.


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02-19-2020, 03:51 PM

Drill away.
That thing is so butt heavy anyway.
And you can still turn it down to .840-1.240 if it moves a little.

If you destroy it, so what ?
You're a repair person.
Failures are part of the journey.

If you succeed, you have a lifetime of lesson.

I've drilled ebony bottom Dufferin blanks.
  
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