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evergruven
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09-13-2019, 12:10 PM

thanks all for the replies
I'm not sure about any of this
I just go with my gut
lined with a few hits and clicks
most of you have more experience
so it's nice to read your findings
thanks again


peace & love
  
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  (#17)
9BallKY
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09-13-2019, 12:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Yeah, and miscues too - just another gimmick to sell those useless leather tips.

pj
chgo
As stated above (you canít buy a stroke) miscues are result of a bad stroke 99% of the time regardless of the kind of tip you use.
  
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  (#18)
MmmSharp
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09-13-2019, 01:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
According to a claim by a manufacturer, carbon fiber is only three percent better than the best wood shafts when it comes to minimizing deflection. However, most people weren't playing with the best wood. Another issue, with plain wooden shafts most people don't index their cues for maximum consistency.

{SNIP}

Hu
Hu, can you expand on what you mean with "index their cues for maximum consistency" I haven't heard this term, and I am wondering if it is referring to something I know under a different term/reference.

inline with the thread, I prefer solid maple. i actually find that using the natural deflection to get whitely around that just barely hooked shot to be very useful.
  
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  (#19)
Black-Balled
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09-13-2019, 01:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9BallKY View Post
As stated above (you canít buy a stroke) miscues are result of a bad stroke 99% of the time regardless of the kind of tip you use.
94% of statistics are made up.
  
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Old
  (#20)
Black-Balled
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09-13-2019, 01:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MmmSharp View Post
Hu, can you expand on what you mean with "index their cues for maximum consistency" I haven't heard this term, and I am wondering if it is referring to something I know under a different term/reference.

inline with the thread, I prefer solid maple. i actually find that using the natural deflection to get whitely around that just barely hooked shot to be very useful.
Establishing reference point on cue so you can orient it the same way each shot...top stays on top, bottom on bottom, etc...
  
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  (#21)
Bob Jewett
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09-13-2019, 02:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Establishing reference point on cue so you can orient it the same way each shot...top stays on top, bottom on bottom, etc...
I used to do that when I played with a wooden shaft. I made a small mark on the "top" of the shaft by the tip. One opponent wanted me to be disqualified for improper use of equipment or an aiming device or some such. The TD told him to shut up and go back and play.


Bob Jewett
SF Billiard Academy
  
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  (#22)
strmanglr scott
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09-13-2019, 02:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black-Balled View Post
Establishing reference point on cue so you can orient it the same way each shot...top stays on top, bottom on bottom, etc...
You hit with the same side up all the time?

I know people's opinions on the Muecci black dot shaft, that is what I play with. I never worry about the orientation of the shaft. When I first got the cue I made a decision right then, that was too much to worry about. I also thought my cue tip would wear strange. I've never noticed a difference in shots regarding cue orientation.

I saw a black dot on a Muecci with the laminate pieces vertical once, all others I've seen the laminates are horizontal.

I've never seen or heard anything from Muecci that the cue should be oriented a certain way.


Now as for deflection, it's doesn't exist to me. I don't think about it, so it does not exist in my mind when playing. I know what it is, understand the physics. I never heard of deflection until I became a member of this site. Had a decent game before I knew what it was. Now that I know what it is, I still have a decent game, it hasn't changed the level of my play.


The rail is your best friend.
  
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Old
  (#23)
Black-Balled
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09-13-2019, 03:14 PM

Not intentionally, but I do sometimes tweak its orientation while shooting, coz I swear the shaft looks warped at the end.

I think it is just light trickery on my home table.

I am not sure if/ if not my rolling results in a consistent end point and it never particularly struck me as necessary to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by strmanglr scott View Post
You hit with the same side up all the time?

I know people's opinions on the Muecci black dot shaft, that is what I play with. I never worry about the orientation of the shaft. When I first got the cue I made a decision right then, that was too much to worry about. I also thought my cue tip would wear strange. I've never noticed a difference in shots regarding cue orientation.

I saw a black dot on a Muecci with the laminate pieces vertical once, all others I've seen the laminates are horizontal.

I've never seen or heard anything from Muecci that the cue should be oriented a certain way.


Now as for deflection, it's doesn't exist to me. I don't think about it, so it does not exist in my mind when playing. I know what it is, understand the physics. I never heard of deflection until I became a member of this site. Had a decent game before I knew what it was. Now that I know what it is, I still have a decent game, it hasn't changed the level of my play.
  
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consistency
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ShootingArts
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consistency - 09-13-2019, 03:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MmmSharp View Post
Hu, can you expand on what you mean with "index their cues for maximum consistency" I haven't heard this term, and I am wondering if it is referring to something I know under a different term/reference.

inline with the thread, I prefer solid maple. i actually find that using the natural deflection to get whitely around that just barely hooked shot to be very useful.


Natural wood shafts are stiffer in one direction than another, stronger too. Started when playing off the wall, the cues with the best tips and best shaft areas were usually that way because they were warped and not played with as much. I always turned the warp so the tip bowed upwards, some prefer it bowed down. From there, I went to turning the wood grain vertical on better shafts so they were stiffer top to bottom and slightly more limber side to side.

Wood is very individual and some is almost as stiff one way as the other, other wood it makes a big difference. Taking the variable out might make a slight difference and the difference between winning or losing might be one or two shots.

We try to get everything else perfect, might as well orient the cue the same way every time too. Not going to make a big difference but it will make a slight difference sometimes and it doesn't cost a thing. Orienting the stick, indexing it to the same place, becomes part of your preshot routine.

Hu
  
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09-14-2019, 06:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Find a cue you really like the hit of... settle on the tips you

play the best with... AND DON'T CHANGE. Keep playing

with the same equipment... hit a million balls... you'll know

what the cue will do and where whitey will go.



$.02
It really is this simple.

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09-14-2019, 08:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
The sequel will be "Deflecting Reflections" -- about how use side spin on kick shots.

As for the marketing stuff.... Several times I hung out a little at a vendor's booth at various expos and tournaments. They were selling low-squirt shafts and had a table to demonstrate them on. The had a few different models and I think joint variations so customers could try them out. I must have watched ten or so customers in total try the shafts.

None of the customers ever used side spin. They had no idea what the shafts were about. Maybe they never used side spin in their normal play so why would they try it in a demo? Some of them bought shafts then and there.

The bottom line for me from that: The vast majority of pool players are unaware of the vast majority of the game, whether that's about the details of shots, the rules, the history, or the players. For better or worse, that's who you have to market to because that is by far the largest part of the market.

As for the low-squirt stuff.... I've used a low-squirt (AKA deflection) shaft since about 1980. I liked it because it hit the ball straighter. The cause of squirt was not widely understood until about 1998 but even before that understanding it was clear to me that less was better.
Good story. And well-stated bottom line. And I agree that less is better for most people. For those who doubt this or want to learn more, see:

advantages of LD shafts

Regards,
Dave
  
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09-14-2019, 08:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I used to do that when I played with a wooden shaft. I made a small mark on the "top" of the shaft by the tip. One opponent wanted me to be disqualified for improper use of equipment or an aiming device or some such. The TD told him to shut up and go back and play.
I knew it... I wondered if I was seeing what I thought I was while you were making shots with the good doctor on vepp.
  
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09-14-2019, 09:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzyJeff87 View Post
I knew it... I wondered if I was seeing what I thought I was while you were making shots with the good doctor on vepp.
He also aligns his vision center in the wrong place and strokes crooked to compensate (see the VEPP video excerpt on YouTube) ... but he sure does it consistently well (as described in the video description of the YouTube video).

Regards,
Dave
  
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09-14-2019, 09:13 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9BallKY View Post
Deflection does exist and has always existed. However it is mainly a marketing tool used by companies to sell a product. First is was the LD shaft and now the carbon fiber shafts. Do they actually help? Very little in my opinion if any. Is there anything wrong with this? No.

Companies have used marketing to sell products for many years. You see it in every commercial on tv. Almost everybody that plays pool owns a couple of cues so they donít really need to buy more, so they have to convince people something is better to keep people buying things they donít really need.

Carbon fiber shafts donít dent so they are better than wood in that aspect. I just prefer wood. The cf shafts that I have tried I simply just donít like them. If someone else does Iím not knocking them, everyone is different.

Cue companies arenít the only companies using this ploy to get people to buy things they donít need. This phone I used to type this doesnít do anything the one I had 5 years didnít do. Technology is great but a pair of shoes isnít the reason an athlete is good at a certain sport.
Marketing is all anout coming up with a product and then creating a need for it.
  
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09-16-2019, 07:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Of course it makes it easier - estimating a smaller adjustment to within a few millimeters is easier than estimating a larger adjustment to within a few millimeters. I don't think there's a sensible argument otherwise.

pj
chgo
That's not true. I've hit a million with both HD and Id. The adjustments are just as easy to make with either, they are simply different.

I play with the standard maple shaft I've had for twenty years because I love the hit and am exactly as accurate with it as I am any of the ld shafts I have played with.

If telling yourself it's easier actually makes it easier for you than so be it.

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