Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page APA screwed our very own sleinen out of a national championship
Reply
Page 4 of 36 « First 234 5614 Last »
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#46)
Cory in DC
AzB Silver Member
Cory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond reputeCory in DC has a reputation beyond repute
 
Cory in DC's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,528
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: DC
   
08-18-2019, 11:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShortBusRuss View Post
For those who haven't heard..sleinen on here was on an APA team (against his better judgement), and made a run all the way to the finals in the APA national 8 ball championship, only to get disqualified by the APA, all prize monies revoked, and a two year ban.Plus, apparently his League Operator gets a $25,000 fine?

For those who do not know Sean, he is exceedingly honest person, and would never sandbag under any circumstances. (I believe he is the highest rated player on the team anyways.. I believe him when he says that his team simply rose to the challenge and showed a lot of heart.

The APA is such a complete and utter joke.

-Shortbusruss
What was the stated reason for disqualification? I presume Sean was playing as a 7, in which case it would have to be other players on his team.


CUES:Schon, Webb
AGE: 44
LOCATION: Washington, DC
HOURS OF POOL: 10 in a good week
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#47)
sixpack
AzB Silver Member

sixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond reputesixpack has a reputation beyond repute
 
sixpack's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,689
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
   
08-18-2019, 11:52 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shasta777 View Post
If this Sean or others/team were supposedly sandbagging... why didn't the APA officials just "RAISE" their skill level to what the APA thought it should be... in other words:

If Sean level was say a skill level #6... then all APA had to do is move his skill level to skill level #7 for the next match. --- Problem Solved!!! ... that would go for (ALL players & teams) No one should ever have to be DQ'dÖ

So just raise their skill level as APA does anyway!!! Instead of all this drama which does hurt the pool sport...

Only way someone should get DQ'd is cause they are PRO pool player...
just my opinion... :-)
I don't think Sean was one of the players whose handicap was raised. I think it was other players on the team. Lower ranked players who worked really hard to improve.

I think the whole thing stinks. Go to Vegas to win the world championship...but you have to play average to do it. If you play too good you'll get booted out, forfeit prize money, be banned from APA for two years and your LO will be fined $25k.

It seems obvious that the only people who would have a chance to win and not get DQ'd would be the professional sandbaggers who know how many innings they need to stretch games out to. And how close they need to keep the points while still winning.

As I've often said, an honest person doesn't stand a chance against a professional liar when it comes to being believable.

This seems like exactly that. The fact that they played as hard as they could and beat teams by as much as they could is a good tell that they were playing their heart out and playing to win IMO.

To the winning team: How does it feel to win and know you were not even close to the best team there?


Splitting time between Chicago and San Francisco.

"If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it." - Mark Twain
__________________
Email:
Playing Cues: Ernie Martinez, Schon
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#48)
Snooker Theory
AzB Silver Member
Snooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond reputeSnooker Theory has a reputation beyond repute
 
Snooker Theory's Avatar
 
Status: Online
Posts: 1,725
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: US
   
08-19-2019, 01:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
You and I both know that isnít the truth. The truth is much more simple. Stop trying to create drama and read the rule of the organization your bashing. Or the courts will see your words as slander.
What a post, you work for the APA or something.


  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#49)
trob
AzB Silver Member
trob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond repute
 
trob's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,254
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
   
08-19-2019, 03:13 AM

Who cares ..they spend money on the game. You want to goto a golf course and see how many guys have $3000 clubs and break 100. I love this game.. but I hate the nit jack assís like you that hold it back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawaiianEye View Post
The APA is a JOKE!

I just left Hawaiian Brian's because the Sunday league came in and took all the tables.

I usually sit around for an hour, or so, watching them, but it drives me bat shit crazy. I have nothing against players of a lower skill level, but some of these people come in with $1,000 carbon fiber cues and can barely hit the cue ball and they'll talk about "low deflection". It's insane.

And then the "higher" level players will try to coach them and they are clueless, too.

The whole thing is a waste of money IMO.


Player........... road line with 12.9 revo and 314/3
Break cue.... bk3
jump cue..... Fury
Case............ Molinari butterfly

If you live with one foot in the future and one in the past you'll piss all over the present.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#50)
trob
AzB Silver Member
trob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond repute
 
trob's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,254
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
   
08-19-2019, 03:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Got Lucky View Post
Wait, what? The championship is played on a barbox? That ain't even a real table. You couldn't pay me to travel to Vegas to play on a barbox.
So 99 percent of the league plays on bar boxís then and you think you should take these amateur players and put them on a 9 foot tables in nationals.. Do. You think they should make the basket higher and smaller for the nba finals? Lol of course itís bar box.


Player........... road line with 12.9 revo and 314/3
Break cue.... bk3
jump cue..... Fury
Case............ Molinari butterfly

If you live with one foot in the future and one in the past you'll piss all over the present.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#51)
Eric.
Club a member
Eric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Eric.'s Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,212
vCash: 1225
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ/NYC metro
   
08-19-2019, 03:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory in DC View Post
What was the stated reason for disqualification? I presume Sean was playing as a 7, in which case it would have to be other players on his team.
It looks like Sean was playing as a 6, so it's possible that he got flagged, then raised.


Eric
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#52)
trob
AzB Silver Member
trob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond reputetrob has a reputation beyond repute
 
trob's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 3,254
vCash: 500
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2007
   
08-19-2019, 03:25 AM

Typical az thread with az snobby better then everyone else assholes. You got a half story with no real details on why exactly they were disqualified nor any real knowledge of the Apa rules to get you dq’d but lets rail the Apa. In some of these posts you have someone accusing the Apa of not caring about sandbagging But complaining about them doing something about it. Lol They don’t care who wins!! Having lower handy cap players win only helps them show their anyone can win in our league that they push to players.
If your 9/7 you can run as many racks as you want... your not getting dq’d for that!

I can tell you I’ve been to acs,bca and Apa nationals. The Apa is bigger and better run then all of them. Everyone is there having a great time and enjoying the game. Who cares if they buy expensive cues they don’t need. Or kamui chalk or whatever. Their money is supporting the industry so let them buy whatever they want. As someone who has played the game for 30 years I would rather spend time with people like this that genuinely love the game then you bunch of wanna be pro’s who turn your nose up to them like you woke one day and could run a rack and knew everything about the game.


Player........... road line with 12.9 revo and 314/3
Break cue.... bk3
jump cue..... Fury
Case............ Molinari butterfly

If you live with one foot in the future and one in the past you'll piss all over the present.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#53)
jokrswylde
AzB Silver Member
jokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond reputejokrswylde has a reputation beyond repute
 
jokrswylde's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 831
vCash: 500
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Middle Tn
   
08-19-2019, 04:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SBC View Post

APA is killing pool. All they want is the Benjamin's. Paying back maybe 30% of the take, whoever plays it doesnt deserve better.
I don't know this situation, but surely this is hyperbole. Killing pool? Heck for a large part of the population around here, apa is the only exposure folks get to pool.

I'm sure predator, kami, and all the other companies would hate to see the apa fold up...
  
Reply With Quote
Our side of the story
Old
  (#54)
WillyCornbread
Break and One

WillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond reputeWillyCornbread has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 546
vCash: 500
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Brewster, NY
   
Our side of the story - 08-19-2019, 04:28 AM

Hey all, Iím actually the captain of the team that was disqualified. Just landed back home and when I can get to a laptop in a few hours Iíll post what happened and clarify more. Wanted to check in now to maybe prevent speculation and bad info.

A couple quick points:

Sean is not on the Dqd team. He plays on my eight ball team while it was my nine ball team that was disqualified.

We were DQd because I had five players go up one skill level by the end of the semi finals. On the surface this appears damning but happened truly because we all played better than Iíve ever seen any of us play. We were notified of being watched and still played our hearts out without laying down. I realize now that the only way to avoid being accused of cheating would have been to cheat and lie down during a match.

Players of all different skill levels went up. This wasnít a two running racks, or a nine playing as a seven. In this level of competition Iíd expect that your have to have people playing their asses off to win 9 in a row against actual sand baggers in many cases.

We lost many matches and some close ones as well. I had a 2-2 player get raised. Iím not sure why teaching a proper stance to my two makes her a sandbagger. Iíd say if the captain isnít teaching their twos itís in order to keep them from improving, which isnít what I/we do.

We teach our lower level players how to think and how to play defense.The equipment I play on weekly is trash, you canít roll a ball straight so you arenít playing a lot of touchy safeties. Of course our safeties went up when we were playing and coaching with this motivation.

The pocket size, shelf and facing angle made it so I made probably 15 shots during my matches that wouldnít have gone in on any table Iíve ever played on before. That and actually giving a shit about matches should be considered.

Because of this our handicaps were raised progressively. This wasnít the case of us getting behind in a match and then having everyone show some ďrealĒ skill level to get us out of it. Raising the SL was its own consequence of our good play and we had to fade that every round as we did. Is t that the point of the handicaps? We played better got raised, dealt with the lineup and weight changes and grinder through a toug tournament to the finals.

I have players who have received 2year bans, they play on four and five APA teams and their social lives and their pool lives to a degree are centered on this.

I wrote this in the cab on my phone so forgive any typos, I plan to add more later.

I also have some FB messenger screenshots between myself and Sean as well as one of my cocaptains when I was asking him to join which I hope will help addrsss any questions of character or my intent for this team when I started it two years ago. I canít post these from my mobile phone but will shortly.

Thanks.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#55)
Tom1234
AzB Silver Member
Tom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond reputeTom1234 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 102
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Sep 2016
   
08-19-2019, 04:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shasta777 View Post
If this Sean or others/team were supposedly sandbagging... why didn't the APA officials just "RAISE" their skill level to what the APA thought it should be... in other words:

If Sean level was say a skill level #6... then all APA had to do is move his skill level to skill level #7 for the next match. --- Problem Solved!!! ... that would go for (ALL players & teams) No one should ever have to be DQ'dÖ

So just raise their skill level as APA does anyway!!! Instead of all this drama which does hurt the pool sport...

Only way someone should get DQ'd is cause they are PRO pool player...
just my opinion... :-)
My SL was raised from 4 to 5 AFTER MY FIRST MATCH in 2001 while at the APA championship. I played a 5 and it took 16 innings to win. No way this guy was a SL 5 in my league back home. We went hill/hill; either one of us could have won.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#56)
rh1919
AzB Bronze Member
rh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond reputerh1919 has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4
vCash: 500
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Aug 2015
   
08-19-2019, 04:58 AM

During my second year of APA, about 6 years ago, I asked my league operator about the methods that were used to establish handicaps. His answer: The "computer" does it. No further explanation. I finished the season, but haven't and won't go back.
  
Reply With Quote
Stuck at LAS airport at the moment, but here's some helpful info
Old
  (#57)
sfleinen
14.1 & One Pocket Addict
sfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond reputesfleinen has a reputation beyond repute
 
sfleinen's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 7,683
vCash: 4100
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Carmel, NY (1.5-hour north of Manhattan)
   
Lightbulb Stuck at LAS airport at the moment, but here's some helpful info - 08-19-2019, 05:07 AM

Hi folks:

Sean Leinen here. I am currently stuck at the airport in Las Vegas (flight cancellations all night long). However, I wanted to share a wide-open (permissions-wise) post on social media that explains my involvement in this situation:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...action_generic

(I would normally try to type the situation out as a full post, but it's difficult and tedious on a phone touchscreen. However, anyone should be able to click on the link and access the full post.)

Bill Jackson also has some screenshots that you folks should find very telling and enlightening.

Best,
-Sean


"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom." -Isaac Asimov

"They haven't got brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's blown into their heads by mistake, and they don't think." -Eeyore, The House at Pooh Corner

Last edited by sfleinen; 08-19-2019 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Fixed URL
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#58)
ChicagoJoe
AzB Silver Member
ChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond reputeChicagoJoe has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 808
vCash: 500
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: NW Indiana
   
08-19-2019, 05:51 AM

Just my opinion, having 5 players get raised and bragging on Facebook that you “destroyed” the team that finished first is probably not a good look.

The people on the Facebook page don’t seem too upset about not playing APA anymore either.


Players: Southwest Ebony with Cocobolo Points. Tony Guerra Cocobolo with quilted maple handle
Jump/Break: McDermott Stinger
Case: JB Ultimate Rugged
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#59)
Eric.
Club a member
Eric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond reputeEric. has a reputation beyond repute
 
Eric.'s Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 4,212
vCash: 1225
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ/NYC metro
   
08-19-2019, 06:04 AM

On a side note...

This is why we, the jury/peanut gallery, shouldnt be too quick to deliberate before hearing all the facts.

I suppose the retarded thread title didnt help much either.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#60)
Hits 'em Hard
AzB Silver Member
Hits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,219
vCash: 500
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Grand Junction, Co
   
08-19-2019, 06:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfleinen View Post
Hi folks:

Sean Leinen here. I am currently stuck at the airport in Las Vegas (flight cancellations all night long). However, I wanted to share a wide-open (permissions-wise) post on social media that explains my involvement in this situation:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...action_generic

(I would normally try to type the situation out as a full post, but it's difficult and tedious on a phone touchscreen. However, anyone should be able to click on the link and access the full post.)

Bill Jackson also has some screenshots that you folks should find very telling and enlightening.

Best,
-Sean
Itís hard to follow exactly what youíre laying down. But it sound shady as hell. Restructuring a roster after the spot was already won?
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 4 of 36 « First 234 5614 Last »

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.