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09-06-2019, 06:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
The problem with most people's interpretation of the difference is that they are usually talking about different cues or shafts, where the pin difference is likely the VERY LEAST of the factors that will make the cue hit or feel different.
Yes it's amazing what people think they can feel.

Without this, snake oil sales would plummet.


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09-06-2019, 10:12 AM

wow, sorry, I was just joking.
no more PM's.



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09-06-2019, 06:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
The problem with most people's interpretation of the difference is that they are usually talking about different cues or shafts, where the pin difference is likely the VERY LEAST of the factors that will make the cue hit or feel different.
Radial joint screws.
Stainless, Brass, Titanium, Aluminum and G10
Are you really sure about that statement? Try all 5 in the same cue. If the hit is the same. HOUSTON! There's a problem. If the weight and balance has changed. The hit has changed.


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09-06-2019, 07:22 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
Radial joint screws.
Stainless, Brass, Titanium, Aluminum and G10
Are you really sure about that statement? Try all 5 in the same cue. If the hit is the same. HOUSTON! There's a problem. If the weight and balance has changed. The hit has changed.
I agree Mike. I had a custom cue many years ago, that was originally built with a 3/8-10 stainless pin, the older minor diameter. The cue was gorgeous so of course I eventually sold it. At any rate, back to the "story." Something didn't "feel" right to me about the cue. I believed that the problem for whatever reason was the stainless pin. I couldn't put my finger on why, but for once in my life, I trusted my gut. My Cue-maker at the time, told me I was nuts, but long story short, I convinced him to swap the pin from stainless, to the same 3/8-10, in G10, with the same, or close to the same minor diameter. The difference was unbelievable. Something about the material change to that particular pin, completely "unlocked" that cues potential IMO. FWIW, I am not a huge G10 fan in terms of pin material, but in this particular case, it mosdef seemed to have had a positive impact in terms of acoustics, and overall vibration transmission, as well as pulling the balance point back, a little closer to where I usually prefer. Call me crazy, but that was my honest experience, in one particular case. The changes were noticeable.
Sorry for jumping in gents...I just felt the experience had a little relevance to the OP's topic.
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09-07-2019, 01:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by j2pac View Post
I agree Mike. I had a custom cue many years ago, that was originally built with a 3/8-10 stainless pin, the older minor diameter. The cue was gorgeous so of course I eventually sold it. At any rate, back to the "story." Something didn't "feel" right to me about the cue. I believed that the problem for whatever reason was the stainless pin. I couldn't put my finger on why, but for once in my life, I trusted my gut. My Cue-maker at the time, told me I was nuts, but long story short, I convinced him to swap the pin from stainless, to the same 3/8-10, in G10, with the same, or close to the same minor diameter. The difference was unbelievable. Something about the material change to that particular pin, completely "unlocked" that cues potential IMO. FWIW, I am not a huge G10 fan in terms of pin material, but in this particular case, it mosdef seemed to have had a positive impact in terms of acoustics, and overall vibration transmission, as well as pulling the balance point back, a little closer to where I usually prefer. Call me crazy, but that was my honest experience, in one particular case. The changes were noticeable.
Sorry for jumping in gents...I just felt the experience had a little relevance to the OP's topic.
Best regards.
j2
Nope. Not gonna call you crazy. It's a common occurrence. Joint screws matter and every player has and needs different options. Here's the reverse of my first story. Another local, revo shaft again. Uni loc joint, stainless collar 3/4x16 thread. I switch the joint to Birdseye maple and the screw to Titanium radial. It's a good switch, good up and coming player, I like him. But something's missing for him. So I switched the Titanium radial to a brass one. A little more weight at the joint. Bingo! He's happy now.
So again. There is not one set up that fits every player.


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Different hits
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Different hits - 09-07-2019, 07:47 AM

After 25 plus years building cues, and working now on cue # 658, I am sure I am the dumbest builder of all that have posted on this thread. I am also sure there are experts that can feel 1 gram difference in the weight of a cue.

But I can say this having has hundreds and hundreds of people come to my shop to buy cues, 99 percent of them cannot tell the difference in a 1/2 ounce in a cue, and most really do not care.

And I rarely ever hear 2 people describe the feel or hit of a cue the same. I'm sure also in the future there will be threads about the difference in the hit of a cue with an auto clear finish and the same cue with a super glue finish.
  
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09-07-2019, 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
Nope. Not gonna call you crazy. It's a common occurrence. Joint screws matter and every player has and needs different options. Here's the reverse of my first story. Another local, revo shaft again. Uni loc joint, stainless collar 3/4x16 thread. I switch the joint to Birdseye maple and the screw to Titanium radial. It's a good switch, good up and coming player, I like him. But something's missing for him. So I switched the Titanium radial to a brass one. A little more weight at the joint. Bingo! He's happy now.
So again. There is not one set up that fits every player.
At what skill level does a player start to have things like this matter to them? I mean to where it actually affects the level of their play?

There is a huge market for gimmicks and gadgets. It's the human condition.

Many people have gotten rich providing things that feel good.


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09-07-2019, 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
Radial joint screws.
Stainless, Brass, Titanium, Aluminum and G10
Are you really sure about that statement? Try all 5 in the same cue. If the hit is the same. HOUSTON! There's a problem. If the weight and balance has changed. The hit has changed.
Are you implying hit and feel are the same thing? If I change the ferrule and tip on a cue, are you implying Iím not changing the hit since the weight and balance point didnít change?
  
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09-07-2019, 10:40 AM

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Originally Posted by JC View Post
At what skill level does a player start to have things like this matter to them? I mean to where it actually affects the level of their play?

There is a huge market for gimmicks and gadgets. It's the human condition.

Many people have gotten rich providing things that feel good.

Well Sir.
He's a B- player. It mattered to him. Respectfully, if you experiment and do some R&D. It might matter to you. At the very least, you MIGHT! Know the difference.


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09-07-2019, 11:14 AM

At whatever skill level players decide to have a custom cue build is when they've come to the point of starting to be able to tell the difference between different set ups and dimensions and fine tune their game. Of course there's a boat load that never reach that point or want to.
As Cuemakers we build what we consider our best combination of things but we also build everything else under the sun and get to try the customers idea of perfect build. Most of the time we know what we'll be interesting and what is plain and simple ...Oh well

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09-07-2019, 11:17 AM

If SW used a 5/16 18 screw instead of 3/8 11 brass. their cues would hit different.
If Joe Gold used a brass 3/8 11 instead of a slightly larger G-10 10 tpi, his cues would hit different.


  
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09-07-2019, 11:18 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Are you implying hit and feel are the same thing? If I change the ferrule and tip on a cue, are you implying Iím not changing the hit since the weight and balance point didnít change?

Who said that. I sure didn't. You might want to read all the post again.


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09-07-2019, 11:33 AM

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Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
Who said that. I sure didn't. You might want to read all the post again.
Well maybe you didnít quite understand what you wrote then. If I were to change a pin, but kept the balance point the exact same. Both shaft and butt weigh the same as before, youíre implying that the hit of the cue wonít change. But the Ďhití is only changing because of a shifted balance point.

The point Iím making is that changing a pin is not changing the hit of the cue. Itís changing the balance point, which in turn affects your perception of the hit. Itís still the same taper/woods. But the shifted balance point allows your stroke to either feel more in tune with the cue or not. A pin change does not change the hit, it changed your perception of the hit through a shift in the balance point.

Wasnít there a thread a while ago that tried to discus proper balancing of cues, and Schuler got brought up because of his methods to balance a cue? I believe this is just a basic offshoot of the conversation.
  
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09-07-2019, 11:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Well maybe you didnít quite understand what you wrote then. If I were to change a pin, but kept the balance point the exact same. Both shaft and butt weigh the same as before, youíre implying that the hit of the cue wonít change. But the Ďhití is only changing because of a shifted balance point.

The point Iím making is that changing a pin is not changing the hit of the cue. Itís changing the balance point, which in turn affects your perception of the hit. Itís still the same taper/woods. But the shifted balance point allows your stroke to either feel more in tune with the cue or not. A pin change does not change the hit, it changed your perception of the hit through a shift in the balance point.

Wasnít there a thread a while ago that tried to discus proper balancing of cues, and Schuler got brought up because of his methods to balance a cue? I believe this is just a basic offshoot of the conversation.
You need to made some mock-up cues.
Make one with a brass radial. Play with it for a while.
Then replace it with a G-10 radial.
Then decide if the hit did not change.


  
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09-07-2019, 11:37 AM

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Originally Posted by JC View Post
At what skill level does a player start to have things like this matter to them? I mean to where it actually affects the level of their play?

There is a huge market for gimmicks and gadgets. It's the human condition.

Many people have gotten rich providing things that feel good.
I am far from accomplished my Brother, but I would like to believe at least slightly cerebral. I have been playing pool, although not that much recently, for the better part of 30 + years, and been around cue construction, and cue materials for the better part of 20 years. It mattered to me.
Much love to you my friend, and keep up the good cue work. Remember, a happy customer is often a repeat customer.
Joe P


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