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Hits 'em Hard
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09-07-2019, 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
If SW used a 5/16 18 screw instead of 3/8 11 brass. their cues would hit different.
If Joe Gold used a brass 3/8 11 instead of a slightly larger G-10 10 tpi, his cues would hit different.
Both of those shops are well enough off, I’m sure they could make a cue with those pins and still get the same hit as their normal cues. Sure they’d have to modify certain procedures, but a Ebony/Ebony SW does not hit like a BEM/BEM does. Even with their 3/8-11 pins.
  
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Hits 'em Hard
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09-07-2019, 11:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
You need to made some mock-up cues.
Make one with a brass radial. Play with it for a while.
Then replace it with a G-10 radial.
Then decide if the hit did not change.
Am I allowed to place weights behind the g-10 pin and maintain the same balance point?
  
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JoeyInCali
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09-07-2019, 11:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Am I allowed to place weights behind the g-10 pin and maintain the same balance point?
Yes. you can.
And that will not change how much more flex you will have in the middle of the cue.


  
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Michael Webb
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09-07-2019, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Well maybe you didn’t quite understand what you wrote then. If I were to change a pin, but kept the balance point the exact same. Both shaft and butt weigh the same as before, you’re implying that the hit of the cue won’t change. But the ‘hit’ is only changing because of a shifted balance point.

The point I’m making is that changing a pin is not changing the hit of the cue. It’s changing the balance point, which in turn affects your perception of the hit. It’s still the same taper/woods. But the shifted balance point allows your stroke to either feel more in tune with the cue or not. A pin change does not change the hit, it changed your perception of the hit through a shift in the balance point.

Wasn’t there a thread a while ago that tried to discus proper balancing of cues, and Schuler got brought up because of his methods to balance a cue? I believe this is just a basic offshoot of the conversation.
And you don't think changing the balance of the cue changed the way it plays. Different material screws also play differently.
Please. Make some cues.
I understood exactly what I wrote. I have to ask, Do you make cues?


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Last edited by Michael Webb; 09-07-2019 at 11:56 AM.
  
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Hits 'em Hard
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09-07-2019, 12:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Webb View Post
And you don't think changing the balance of the cue changed the way it plays. Different material screws also play differently.
Please. Make some cues.
I understood exactly what I wrote.
Now youre changing your tune. First you said it changed the hit. I said it did not. Now you’ve removed your usage of ‘hit’ and are now focusing on the balance point. Changing the balance point of the cue doesn’t change its hit. And as far as I am aware, no one has actually done any true robotic testing to determine what true changes are made. The human element prefers something that feels good. Changing a pin that affects the balance point then changes how that human regards the change. Anything that requires a human to say ‘this is the change’ when regards to the feel of the cue needs data to back it up. Cue makers as a whole, have refused to collaborate to do so. Instead all anyone gets is this conversation repeated every time this question is asked. No science to back up your claims, just human preference speaking.
  
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09-07-2019, 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Now youre changing your tune. First you said it changed the hit. I said it did not. Now you’ve removed your usage of ‘hit’ and are now focusing on the balance point. Changing the balance point of the cue doesn’t change its hit. And as far as I am aware, no one has actually done any true robotic testing to determine what true changes are made. The human element prefers something that feels good. Changing a pin that affects the balance point then changes how that human regards the change. Anything that requires a human to say ‘this is the change’ when regards to the feel of the cue needs data to back it up. Cue makers as a whole, have refused to collaborate to do so. Instead all anyone gets is this conversation repeated every time this question is asked. No science to back up your claims, just human preference speaking.
With all due respect...do you need a scientific test to tell you when you are hungry, or feel pain? Feel, and hit are at least interconnected IMO. Maybe I am misunderstanding your contention.
Best regards.
Joe P


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Hits 'em Hard
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09-07-2019, 12:25 PM

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Originally Posted by j2pac View Post
With all due respect...do you need a scientific test to tell you when you are hungry, or feel pain? Feel, and hit are at least interconnected IMO. Maybe I am misunderstanding your contention.
Best regards.
Joe P
A cue with a stiff hit needs far more than a pin change to make it a soft hit. A cue with a soft hit, is nearly impossible to change into a stiff hit. The hit of the cue is the same regardless of what the pin is. The feel of the cue changes based upon pin because it changes the balance point. It’ll feel better in your hands or it won’t. The hit of the cue is the same. The taper, joint collars, and woods all affect hit and feel. The difference between a stiff hit(Schon) and a soft hit(Meucci) is more than the pin. A pin change does not affect its hit, it affects its feel and balance point. A SW with a 5/16-18 pin is still a stiff hitting cue.
  
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Michael Webb
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09-07-2019, 12:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Now youre changing your tune. First you said it changed the hit. I said it did not. Now you’ve removed your usage of ‘hit’ and are now focusing on the balance point. Changing the balance point of the cue doesn’t change its hit. And as far as I am aware, no one has actually done any true robotic testing to determine what true changes are made. The human element prefers something that feels good. Changing a pin that affects the balance point then changes how that human regards the change. Anything that requires a human to say ‘this is the change’ when regards to the feel of the cue needs data to back it up. Cue makers as a whole, have refused to collaborate to do so. Instead all anyone gets is this conversation repeated every time this question is asked. No science to back up your claims, just human preference speaking.

Well Missy
You git me laughing. AT YOU, but at least I'm laughing. Try and have yourself a nice day. Please come back if you learn how to read. Or maybe build a cue.


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09-07-2019, 01:49 PM

There is a lot happening. Comparing what happens with a wood shaft and a composite shaft is very difficult. The main issue is the frequency of the speed of sound in the materials. Wood shafts is in the order of 4k m/s , some a lottle slower , some a little slower. For composites it is from 10k m/s to 20k m/s depending on the matrix, resin used type of fibre used.
So feedback from the cue hit will be very different due to the frequency response. So before the cue tip has fully compressed, the shock wave has already returned to the tip 2 times as a minimum. What people feel at the handle is not what is happening at the tip, but is a resultant and is effected mainly by the handle make up and materials used. Balance point in a cue is really important, and so is the tip. I have not seen any evidence in my testing to show that any pin has any effect on the ball hit . The degree of tightness at the joint does effect the cue as a whole. So does the contact type effect the hit as well. A shaft that is loose on the outside and seats on the inner face, is different to one that seats on the outer rim with the inner relieved.
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cue Hit - 09-07-2019, 06:15 PM

OK, plain and simple, Balance point changes do not change the hit of the cue. They do change the feel of the cue and could force a change to your stroke.

Ferrule changes, tip changes, pin changes, joint changes and materials used will affect the hit.

That's my two cents

Just an observation; yesterday I tried a carbon fiber shaft that I made for a customer and he loved it, heck I liked it. I put the same shaft on my ebony forearm 5/16 14 stainless cue and hated it. His cue is a Titlist 5/16 14 stainless conversion made by me.

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09-14-2019, 12:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kim Bye View Post
As a sidenote I can mention that Mika Immonen was asked why he was playing with his old cue, instead of his $4000 Exceed MI4. He explained that it was in for a pin change, he could not get used to the wavy pin, he prefered the feel of the United Joint (5/16-14 piloted)
What's the difference in a Wavy pin and 3/8x10? Will a wavy joint shaft fit a 3/8x10 and vice versa?
  
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09-14-2019, 06:01 AM

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Originally Posted by EddieBme View Post
What's the difference in a Wavy pin and 3/8x10? Will a wavy joint shaft fit a 3/8x10 and vice versa?
No it want. The minor is 8mm and the TPI is closer to 9.



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wavy - 09-14-2019, 10:18 AM

The wavy pin doesn't fit anything else which is probably why they did it. The tap
for that joint is fairly expensive in comparison to others.

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