If You Were Shane

lfigueroa · Mar 17, 2013

JCIN said:
One of the things I was talking about regarding mindset that I got from filming the Shane project kind of ties into what Jen joked about. A lot of times you here people talking about "You need to get the cue ball here" or "Get it in this area" Shane often times mentions what he doesnt want to happen "As long as I dont get here I'm fine so I make sure I dont get there."

Its simple and most people have probably seen similar stuff before but when I watched all the little ways he looks at the game its pretty cool. The videos are as much about how he plays the game as the techniques he uses to play it.

This reminds me of something I once heard that jazz great, John Coltrane, once told an aspiring musician, "The notes you don't play are just as important as the ones you do."

I've always thought of that quote in terms of how it applies to 1pocket. IOW, the shots you pass on are just as important as the shots you shoot. But I can see how you could apply that even more specifically to the parameters and outcomes of an individual shot.

Lou Figueroa

Baxter · Mar 17, 2013

TheKman said:
His knowledge and execution of the break shot is unprecedented. The best ever.
Countless hours perfecting it.

No video will get you there. Although I would imagine it being a top seller:
SVB monster break - $49.95

A nice way to supplement his tournament income.

I think Corey has more knowledge and execution in the break shot, he just uses it differently. Corey was soft breaking like a monster years before SVB was even a blip on the radar. Tournaments changed their rules directly because of Corey's break. That is unprecedented.

I thought Shane was already putting out a dvd or series in conjunction with TAR.

TSW · Mar 17, 2013

Baxter said:
I think Corey has more knowledge and execution in the break shot, he just uses it differently. Corey was soft breaking like a monster years before SVB was even a blip on the radar. Tournaments changed their rules directly because of Corey's break. That is unprecedented.

I thought Shane was already putting out a dvd or series in conjunction with TAR.

I don't know about "unprecedented." The game of balkline billiards was invented, and refined, because certain players got too proficient at straight rail billiards (e.g., Jacob Schaefer).

CreeDo · Mar 17, 2013

JCIN said:
One of the things I was talking about regarding mindset that I got from filming the Shane project kind of ties into what Jen joked about. A lot of times you here people talking about "You need to get the cue ball here" or "Get it in this area" Shane often times mentions what he doesnt want to happen "As long as I dont get here I'm fine so I make sure I dont get there."

Its simple and most people have probably seen similar stuff before but when I watched all the little ways he looks at the game its pretty cool. The videos are as much about how he plays the game as the techniques he uses to play it.

Sounds familiar... every shot... "What could possibly go wrong?" and then take a route that avoids all of the possible disasters. I'm really looking forward to these DVDs.

CJ Wiley · Mar 17, 2013

zone play with TOZ

JCIN said:
After two days of filming with Shane, Jennifer joked "I finally figured it out. Shane doesnt play shape. He plays not to be hooked and not to be on a rail."

Now we're talking.....about zone play.....finally :thumbup:

TOZ - Touch of Zones.... "how to stay off the rail and not get hooked"

whitewolf · Mar 17, 2013

CJ Wiley said:
I ask Shane when he was at Clicks in Dallas "what's your key to breaking well?"...he said "I practice 8 hours a day." ....
"But what about your break?".....
"I practice my break 8 hours, and my game 9 hours, I've been practicing 17 hours a day." .......
"omg, never mind."

And that is exactly why Shane can 'slow roll' and spin the ball, even better than Efren IMHO.

CJ, you have to admit that both hit very 'soft' shots lots of times during a match. When I am holding my breath to wait for the object to go into the pocket or the cue ball to creep its way into position I know the players are playing 'soft'. Don't get me wrong, I love your TOI and I think you are very very talented, but there are many different ways to play pool well - is my conclusion.

CJ Wiley · Mar 17, 2013

"the difference that makes the difference".

whitewolf said:
And that is exactly why Shane can 'slow roll' and spin the ball, even better than Efren IMHO.

CJ, you have to admit that both hit very 'soft' shots lots of times during a match. When I am holding my breath to wait for the object to go into the pocket or the cue ball to creep its way into position I know the players are playing 'soft'. Don't get me wrong, I love your TOI and I think you are very very talented, but there are many different ways to play pool well - is my conclusion.

You are certainly right and I will always back you up on your statement.

The difference is the equipment and especially the cloth. You can get away with slow rolling balls and playing pretty much anyway you want on tournament tables. They roll perfectly and the cloth slides the balls in so you can maximize the "pocket zone" with a "slow rolling ball".

In tournaments you'll notice the that the player that "DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES" is the one that usually wins.

However, in the local pool rooms this is not the case and it's a whole different situation. The cloth will be worn and the pockets won't be sliding the ball in anymore. The cloth will be slower so you have to create a faster cue speed and the tables won't roll perfectly because the floors "settle" and it's difficult, if not impossible to keep the table "tournament level".

Then there's people that come in before gambling matches and put a card under a leg when no one's looking so the table rolls off for sure. With TOI none of this matters, I'd prefer to play on a table that rolls off, has worn cloth and pockets that need to be hit cleanly.

In tournaments the strategy is "Don't Hook Yourself", "Stay off of the Rail"
and "Dont' Get on the Wrong Side of the Ball".

Remember this, it's "the difference that makes the difference". 'The Game is the Teacher'

JB Cases · Mar 17, 2013

CreeDo said:
If you think anyone can knock Shane out just by adding some missing knowledge...
well, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT BUDDY

I've found (much to my everlasting sorrow) that knowledge is only one piece of the puzzle.
Maybe not even be the most important one. You gotta be able to execute.

You know what secret piece of knowledge helped him do so well in the last TAR?
"Miss zero cut shots in over 50 games" ...you can have that one for free.

Sorry but Willie Mosconi beat you to it 40 years ago. His secret to championship pool? "Don't Miss.", Willie's advice to aspiring players.

whitewolf · Mar 17, 2013

CJ Wiley said:
[/B]

You are certainly right and I will always back you up on your statement.

The difference is the equipment and especially the cloth. You can get away with slow rolling balls and playing pretty much anyway you want on tournament tables. They roll perfectly and the cloth slides the balls in so you can maximize the "pocket zone" with a "slow rolling ball".

In tournaments you'll notice the that the player that "DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES" is the one that usually wins.

However, in the local pool rooms this is not the case and it's a whole different situation. The cloth will be worn and the pockets won't be sliding the ball in anymore. The cloth will be slower so you have to create a faster cue speed and the tables won't roll perfectly because the floors "settle" and it's difficult, if not impossible to keep the table "tournament level".

Then there's people that come in before gambling matches and put a card under a leg when no one's looking so the table rolls off for sure. With TOI none of this matters, I'd prefer to play on a table that rolls off, has worn cloth and pockets that need to be hit cleanly.
In tournaments the strategy is "Don't Hook Yourself", "Stay off of the Rail"
and "Dont' Get on the Wrong Side of the Ball".

Remember this, it's "the difference that makes the difference". 'The Game is the Teacher'

You are so right. I never looked at it this way :thumbup: And let's not forget the different weighted cue balls (red dot vs. blue dot). Pool is so enigmatic (JAM, are you reading this for the best word that describes pool?).

richiebalto · Mar 17, 2013

JB Cases said:
Shane has given up his secret to the break hundreds of times for free. When asked he says practice. When asked how much he said that one day he put 18 hours into working on the break.

I once spent 15 minutes working with the BreakRak at their booth at the Super Billiards Expo. In those 15 minutes I learned how to park my rock dead center table. And I mean PARK it just like the pros.

I have read that Shane also practiced with a BreakRak. In any event that type of dedication to figuring out the power break pays dividends as you well see. And really it's the same as Corey figuring out all the soft breaks. When anyone dedicates themselves to a task then they are bound to become an expert in it if they are not mentally retarded or have some form of memory issues.

That said there are secrets still. By secrets I mean ways to play and see the balls that don't come to you just by hitting balls. Things that top players have discovered and that they share with other top players but which are not shared with iggies. You have to get to a certain level before better players really open up to you. At least that's how I see it.

I can only really compare it to my own business. You might look at my case and someone else's and conclude that they are the same. But you'd be wrong because there are things I do which are not known to anyone but us and a very few case makers I have told about them. Given that I have studied - which means dissected - the cases from almost every other brand - I KNOW that they don't do what I do.

Now they could buy my case and tear it apart and try to figure out why I did certain things and try to figure out how I did them and probably they would be able to reasonably duplicate them. But this is much harder when you are watching a person perform a task like playing pool. For example I kick really well, especially one rail kicks. I have figured out a way to mentally visualize the distance and aiming using my cue without actually looking like I am measuring anything. So I kick balls in and the spectators clap and people admire my "skill" but in reality my skill is because I have learned a geometric way to know where to send the cue ball and I have developed a way to do it quickly without any extra actions. I haven't actually practiced every possible kick shot to develop a feel for them.

A month or so ago though I figured out that I could use this method for banking to spots on the rail to play better safeties. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbjl_8wtcS8

I practiced this for about as long as it took me to make the video and since then I can confidently say that it has helped me to win about $200 laying down safeties which I used to sell out more than 50% of the time.

John i hate to be hard on ya, but the worst player in the world could play safe from there, without no system!

But that double the distant does work as i used it more then a few times!

JB Cases · Mar 17, 2013

richiebalto said:
John i hate to be hard on ya, but the worst player in the world could play from there, without no system!

But that double the distant does work as i used it more then a few times!

Play from where?

richiebalto · Mar 17, 2013

JB Cases said:
Play from where?

With the 8 ball on the lower side rail and q ball on the middle of the bottom rail, thats the easiest safe in the world to play, no special tools needed for that one Buddy. Sorry John, play safe from there.

JB Cases · Mar 17, 2013

richiebalto said:
With the 8 ball on the lower side rail and q ball on the middle of the bottom rail, thats the easiest safe in the world to play, no special tools needed for that one Buddy. Sorry John, play safe from there.

Well if it's so easy why do people constantly sell it out? I think it's because they have an idea of what to do but not a specific target. I found, through practice that I could figure out how to define a specific target and measure where to hit the object ball to get it there.

The shot you picked might be easy to you but it's not always easy to me and I got tired of selling out the safe half the time I played it. Now I am easily better than 50% on ALL my safeties of this type even from seemingly ridiculous positions BECAUSE of applying a learned tool to the shot rather than trying to feel my way through it.

And this is what I think applies to Shane's mentality. Spend the time to figure what REALLY works and then the time to REALLY master it. A guy like that is never done learning and never done getting better.

richiebalto · Mar 17, 2013

JB Cases said:
Well if it's so easy why do people constantly sell it out? I think it's because they have an idea of what to do but not a specific target. I found, through practice that I could figure out how to define a specific target and measure where to hit the object ball to get it there.

The shot you picked might be easy to you but it's not always easy to me and I got tired of selling out the safe half the time I played it. Now I am easily better than 50% on ALL my safeties of this type even from seemingly ridiculous positions BECAUSE of applying a learned tool to the shot rather than trying to feel my way through it.

And this is what I think applies to Shane's mentality. Spend the time to figure what REALLY works and then the time to REALLY master it. A guy like that is never done learning and never done getting better.

I agree John, this shot is all about speed, hit it to easy= sell out, hit it too hard= sell out!

Hit it with the rite speed= perfect safe!

JB Cases · Mar 17, 2013

richiebalto said:
I agree John, this shot is all about speed, hit it to easy= sell out, hit it too hard= sell out!

I don't agree that it's all about speed. I think you can hit it in the wrong place at the right speed and also sell out. Having a specific target for the object ball seems to help me also figure out the right speed.

Anyway I don't really want to get into the nuance. The point is that no, not everyone can play the safe without "tools". Only those that have reached a certain level can do it and that level has to have been reached with some kind of practice to develop the right touch and knoweldge of what should happen and the ability to do it. So even if the player isn't using any type of systematic approach at some point they will have had to put in some table time on these types of shots. That really was my point in relating this to Shane and his approach to pool.

I have said this before but I try to work on puzzles on the pool table. I will set up situations that are tricky and try figure out every possible way to play it. This often leads to finding what I think is the best solution but it also has the extra benefit of often leading to the discovery of other shots I didn't know about. Sometimes I will do something unintended and that will then lead me to mess around with that until I can do it on purpose. Not unlike Efren's statement that he practices the flukes he sees amateurs do until he can do them on purpose.

If You Were Shane

lfigueroa

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Baxter

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TSW

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CreeDo

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CJ Wiley

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whitewolf

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CJ Wiley

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JB Cases

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whitewolf

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richiebalto

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JB Cases

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richiebalto

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JB Cases

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richiebalto

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JB Cases

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