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06-01-2011, 11:52 AM

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Originally Posted by cleary View Post
From what I've been told (no idea how much truth there is to this), pool (at least professionally) wore out its welcome in the 80s in Atlantic City. From what I understand, what went down in the movie "the Color of Money" pretty much actually happened. Players dumping and taking off the house odds.
You got the story wrong.

The story was that the Vegas odds makers soured on Pool due to the dumping and fixing of matches during the Challenge of Champions that Spanish Mike Lebron won. Vegas nvr make a line on Pool again.

AC hosted a pro tourney as recently as within the last 7-8 years or so.

*edit- Sherm beat me to it


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06-01-2011, 11:58 AM

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Originally Posted by cuesmith View Post
I think you're thinking of the Challenge of Champions" that took place in Vegas. That's when the Casino booked the tournament matches and were "taken off" by some of the players. Vegas knew they'd been had and never booked pool again after that. It was the year that Mike Lebron won and was a big "long shot" in the event.
That sounds about what I heard, only I heard it was AC... But makes sense.
  
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06-01-2011, 12:01 PM

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Originally Posted by Jude Rosenstock View Post
I hope so. I don't want to wait a year to go back to Las Vegas to play in the BCA Championships again. It would be awesome if there was something in the middle and I believe I'm not alone in my thoughts. Given the overwhelming success of the Vegas events, there should be enough demand to support something similar around the midway point (November to January).
It's a very viable idea, at this time.

AC is hurting, economically. I'm sure they will listen to anything, right now. IF the event would be scheduled from, say, Sun to Friday morning, then it might look even more attractive. AC is mostly a Fri and Sat only town. Most of the casinos business is done on Fri and Sat alone. If someone had an event on Sun to Thurs/Fri morning, then you could get favorable hotel rates. Also, having the event anywhere between June to September would be ideal, weather-wise, in NJ. I'm thinking July or September might be the best months.


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Super Billiards Expo?
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Super Billiards Expo? - 06-01-2011, 12:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Jude Rosenstock View Post
A pro event isn't exactly what I had in mind. I'm thinking more like the BCA Vegas event where there are events for women & men amateurs and teams and, like the BCA, have a pro event as part of the show. Something that would attract a few thousand people. Having just a pro event would only draw a few hundred people and possibly not make a dent in a casino's overall revenue.
I think one of the reasons that there isn't a big amateur event for men and women plus a pro event on the side is that you already have the Super Billiards Expo in Penn.
  
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06-01-2011, 12:58 PM

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Originally Posted by itsfroze View Post
I think one of the reasons that there isn't a big amateur event for men and women plus a pro event on the side is that you already have the Super Billiards Expo in Penn.
SBE is a great event but I wouldn't consider it worthy of dismissing Atlantic City for the rest of the year. I think, if any organization were to consider AC as a host, it would have to respect SBE's place in the calendar which still leaves quite a bit of room to work with. You could have an event in November and people will still be amped by the time March rolls around.


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06-01-2011, 01:07 PM

Another idea would be to piggy back off of the US 9 ball Open scheduling by having the AC event the first week of Oct. This would give an incentive for top players worldwide to play the pro event, then continue onto the US Open in Chesapeake.

Early Oct also doesnt clash with any other "amateur nationals" event that I know of.


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06-01-2011, 01:12 PM

Another possibility to consider..is that since its a week long...people tend to use their main vacation attending the event.

Would it split the attendance at either event and make both events falter in the attendance?

Vegas would still draw the players from the west coast, AC would get the East coast players, but would players choose to make both trips?

It seems like it might wind up being more of a regional event instead of a national one.

I, for one, would LOVE to see more amateur events and would love to attend one in AC, but I think it would still divide the numbers between them.

Just something to think about.


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06-01-2011, 01:19 PM

AC is no longer priced attractively for anyone in pool to hold an event down there. I believe they're trying to attract a more upscale clientele.

In New York City's Chinatown, there used to be tons of buses going to AC. Now most of the buses go to Mohegan Sun instead. Speaking with friends who gamble, they tell me the odds and comps are better.


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06-01-2011, 01:31 PM

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Originally Posted by ctyhntr View Post
AC is no longer priced attractively for anyone in pool to hold an event down there. I believe they're trying to attract a more upscale clientele.

In New York City's Chinatown, there used to be tons of buses going to AC. Now most of the buses go to Mohegan Sun instead. Speaking with friends who gamble, they tell me the odds and comps are better.
So you're saying you don't agree with the article I posted? I mean, if you don't, that's perfectly valid. I'm under the assumption that this downward trend for AC is recent and perhaps there may be an upcoming opportunity for pool.


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06-01-2011, 02:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Chucklez65 View Post
Another possibility to consider..is that since its a week long...people tend to use their main vacation attending the event.

Would it split the attendance at either event and make both events falter in the attendance?

Vegas would still draw the players from the west coast, AC would get the East coast players, but would players choose to make both trips?

It seems like it might wind up being more of a regional event instead of a national one.

I, for one, would LOVE to see more amateur events and would love to attend one in AC, but I think it would still divide the numbers between them.

Just something to think about.
You make excellent and valid points. I have an idea on how to respond to this but want to see if I can get some supporting data to back up my claims. Give me a day.


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06-01-2011, 03:30 PM

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Originally Posted by Jude Rosenstock View Post
I hope so. I don't want to wait a year to go back to Las Vegas to play in the BCA Championships again. It would be awesome if there was something in the middle and I believe I'm not alone in my thoughts. Given the overwhelming success of the Vegas events, there should be enough demand to support something similar around the midway point (November to January).
How about the Memphis/Tunica area. We are situated about as close to center US as possible with many local attractions as well. I know the casinos have hosted some major tournys in the past. You promoters and players......Give Memphis a look see.........Dan


Well Mrs. Kennedy.....other than that.....what did you think of Dallas???.

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06-01-2011, 03:53 PM

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Originally Posted by Jude Rosenstock View Post
Not saying this isn't true but if this is the case, I would be flabbergasted. I guess the most important questions are, are the Vegas amateur events a success from the casino's perspective? From the BCA's perspective? If we have a proven and successful track record in Vegas, I can't see how Atlantic City wouldn't already be aware of it.
Well, the Riviera is a dump that's gotten worse over time in terms of both general maintenance and staff attitude. And yet the BCA and APA both stay there year after year. I realize there are likely long term contracts, but they must have had a renewal at some point in the last decade and there should be termination for cause or with notice provisions.

The conclusion I draw from that is that other casinos aren't making any real effort to win that business. In turn, that tells me that, for whatever reasons, a hotel full of amateur pool players just isn't all that attractive to casinos.

In other words, maybe the Vegas amateur pool track record isn't that good??


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06-01-2011, 04:18 PM

From the beginning the casinos only wanted to get people into the casino. Everything was just something used to get people into the casino. Just like a loss leader sale at the supermarket. The last thing they want is to fill up their rooms with people whose only betting will be at the pool table.
I go to VF to watch pool. If an event like the super billiards expo was held in Atlantic city I would not leave the pool convention to go to the craps table.
Atlantic city has the ocean and board walk. The casinos have done little to nothing to use this to attract people. One block away from the casino is a very unattractive area. The city has done nothing to change this. They only want people to stay in the casinos.
  
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06-01-2011, 04:58 PM

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Originally Posted by cleary View Post
From what I've been told (no idea how much truth there is to this), pool (at least professionally) wore out its welcome in the 80s in Atlantic City. From what I understand, what went down in the movie "the Color of Money" pretty much actually happened. Players dumping and taking off the house odds.
I believe the Atlantic City scene at the end of the movie was actually shot on Navy Pier in Chicago. Not that this has anything to do with the dumping. Just making a trivial comment.


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06-01-2011, 05:07 PM

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Originally Posted by Jude Rosenstock View Post
Randy, was this a major pro event or amateur? I'm thinking on a scale similar to the BCA Nationals which typically attracts several thousand players. If this were a pro event, I would venture to say there were a hundred or so players and maybe twice as many spectators.


I think it was the BCA National 9-Ball Championships, produced by Gary Benson. I was there and it was full fields. Poor vision by the Casino....randyg


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