How to Aim Faster?

FeelDaShot · Feb 8, 2019

When I get down on a cut shot, I almost always initially line up to undercut the shot. I'm not sure why, but I always do and it's annoying. I then have to adjust my aim slightly to make the ball. Sometimes I have to standup and realign and sometimes I can make a minor tweek while down.

Regardless, I would like to be able to get faster and more efficient at this process. I would like to be able to get down and aim the shot correctly the first time.

Does anyone know why I tend to always instinctively aim to undercut the shot?

Does anyone have any advice on how to practice aiming or setting up on the shot quicker?

The only thing I can think to do is take more time while standing to find the correct aiming point before getting down. I've tried this and it doesn't seem to fix my problem much.

The aiming method I use involves mostly just memorizing contact points/shot pictures. If its an uncommon shot I'll use the ghost ball to get a base aiming point and then adjust for deflection, throw, etc.

Low500 · Feb 8, 2019

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JoeyInCali · Feb 8, 2019

JrHave an instructor check your PSR and form.
My guess is your elbow is sticking outside.
Your rear foot and shoulder placement probably need some checking too.

Patrick Johnson · Feb 8, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
When I get down on a cut shot, I almost always initially line up to undercut the shot. I'm not sure why, but I always do and it's annoying. I then have to adjust my aim slightly to make the ball. Sometimes I have to standup and realign and sometimes I can make a minor tweek while down.

Regardless, I would like to be able to get faster and more efficient at this process. I would like to be able to get down and aim the shot correctly the first time.

Does anyone know why I tend to always instinctively aim to undercut the shot?

Does anyone have any advice on how to practice aiming or setting up on the shot quicker?

The only thing I can think to do is take more time while standing to find the correct aiming point before getting down. I've tried this and it doesn't seem to fix my problem much.

The aiming method I use involves mostly just memorizing contact points/shot pictures. If its an uncommon shot I'll use the ghost ball to get a base aiming point and then adjust for deflection, throw, etc.

Sounds like your "vision center" might not be positioned directly over your cue - this can make it look like your tip is at center ball when it's not. Try moving your head a little in the direction you need to move your tip.

pj
chgo

BC21 · Feb 8, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
When I get down on a cut shot, I almost always initially line up to undercut the shot. I'm not sure why, but I always do and it's annoying. I then have to adjust my aim slightly to make the ball. Sometimes I have to standup and realign and sometimes I can make a minor tweek while down.

Regardless, I would like to be able to get faster and more efficient at this process. I would like to be able to get down and aim the shot correctly the first time.

Does anyone know why I tend to always instinctively aim to undercut the shot?

Does anyone have any advice on how to practice aiming or setting up on the shot quicker?

The only thing I can think to do is take more time while standing to find the correct aiming point before getting down. I've tried this and it doesn't seem to fix my problem much.

The aiming method I use involves mostly just memorizing contact points/shot pictures. If its an uncommon shot I'll use the ghost ball to get a base aiming point and then adjust for deflection, throw, etc.

How long have you been playing? The speed at which a player accurately recognizes a cut shot is acquired over time, not something you learn how to do quickly. Of course, if your trouble is due to some fundamental flaw or dominant eye thing, you could get a quick fix with a good instructor.

Bobkitty · Feb 8, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
When I get down on a cut shot, I almost always initially line up to undercut the shot. I'm not sure why, but I always do and it's annoying. I then have to adjust my aim slightly to make the ball. Sometimes I have to standup and realign and sometimes I can make a minor tweek while down.

Regardless, I would like to be able to get faster and more efficient at this process. I would like to be able to get down and aim the shot correctly the first time.

Does anyone know why I tend to always instinctively aim to undercut the shot?

Does anyone have any advice on how to practice aiming or setting up on the shot quicker?

The only thing I can think to do is take more time while standing to find the correct aiming point before getting down. I've tried this and it doesn't seem to fix my problem much.

The aiming method I use involves mostly just memorizing contact points/shot pictures. If its an uncommon shot I'll use the ghost ball to get a base aiming point and then adjust for deflection, throw, etc.

You know that the back of the pocket is not really dead center of what you're aiming at when you're within a couple of feet from the rail. Put a small mark at the facing where the ball must hit to pocket the ball. IF you are aiming at the back of the pocket, you'll miss with a undercut. Obvious but with throw and cling on the balls, our eyesight eyes the back of the pocket and that "ain't" it.

JoeyInCali · Feb 10, 2019

Thanks for the replys everyone. I know my question was pretty vague and difficult to diagnose without seeing. The good news is, it’s definetly my PSR and footwork that are the most apparent problems. I have decided to painstakingly revamp my fundamentals this weekend and I think I fixed the problem. There is still a lot of work yet to be done, wish me luck!

No magic aiming system fixes that.
It's definitely his PSR and foot placement.
He gets the aiming line right but he gets fat on the ball when he goes down to shoot .

336Robin · Feb 24, 2019

Whenever you get down on a shot your eyes need 3 seconds to adjust, while you stroke and fire it in. If you hurry that process you're not getting the full picture.

cookie man · Feb 24, 2019

JoeyInCali said:
No magic aiming system fixes that.
It's definitely his PSR and foot placement.
He gets the aiming line right but he gets fat on the ball when he goes down to shoot .

Right, no magic aiming system fixes it, but there is an aiming system that could fix it.
PS This is the aiming forum and not a place to come and continually bash systems. The rules are clear.

cookie man · Feb 24, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
When I get down on a cut shot, I almost always initially line up to undercut the shot. I'm not sure why, but I always do and it's annoying. I then have to adjust my aim slightly to make the ball. Sometimes I have to standup and realign and sometimes I can make a minor tweek while down.

Regardless, I would like to be able to get faster and more efficient at this process. I would like to be able to get down and aim the shot correctly the first time.

Does anyone know why I tend to always instinctively aim to undercut the shot?

Does anyone have any advice on how to practice aiming or setting up on the shot quicker?

The only thing I can think to do is take more time while standing to find the correct aiming point before getting down. I've tried this and it doesn't seem to fix my problem much.

The aiming method I use involves mostly just memorizing contact points/shot pictures. If its an uncommon shot I'll use the ghost ball to get a base aiming point and then adjust for deflection, throw, etc.

Stand inside the shot line, might help.

Pidge · Feb 24, 2019

I would hazard a guess that it is to do with your vision centre not being utilised to it's full potential when eyeing up a shot. Then as you get down you bring your vision centre onto the line of aim and above your cue. That's why shots may not look correct when down.

It could be the same, but the opposite way around in that you line a shot with your vision centre on the line of aim but as you get down (this is very common btw) your vision centre strays from the correct line of aim making your cues alignment slightly off.

I created a thread years ago on this topic and in it there are some useful tips from various users on how to find your vision centre. Lots of people think it's just when you're head is above the cue but it's much more than that. It is used to aim.

Look at the pros. They walk around the table and stop automatically with their back foot on the correct line of aim and can drop straight down with ease. Only reason they can do it this fast is because they know their vision centre (even if they don't know it as that) and know exactly when they are o the correct sight line to make a pot.

Dan White · Feb 24, 2019

Pidge said:
I would hazard a guess that it is to do with your vision centre not being utilised to it's full potential when eyeing up a shot. Then as you get down you bring your vision centre onto the line of aim and above your cue. That's why shots may not look correct when down.

It could be the same, but the opposite way around in that you line a shot with your vision centre on the line of aim but as you get down (this is very common btw) your vision centre strays from the correct line of aim making your cues alignment slightly off.

I created a thread years ago on this topic and in it there are some useful tips from various users on how to find your vision centre. Lots of people think it's just when you're head is above the cue but it's much more than that. It is used to aim.

Look at the pros. They walk around the table and stop automatically with their back foot on the correct line of aim and can drop straight down with ease. Only reason they can do it this fast is because they know their vision centre (even if they don't know it as that) and know exactly when they are o the correct sight line to make a pot.

Is the vision center concept really useful? My "natural vision center" caused me to line up the cue crooked at set up requiring a mid stroke correction. I did this for decades until I took some advice from Mark Wilson. He said you can put your head anywhere as long as it is consistent. He recommended chin directly over cue. For me, the only position that allowed the cue to be aligned straight required my non dominant eye to be over the cue. It works nicely. "Vision center" isn't a real thing as far as I can tell. Makes me wonder if guys like Mosconi and Cicero were really opposite eye dominant, or if they just knew something I didn't (until now, lol).

Patrick Johnson · Feb 25, 2019

Dan White said:
Is the vision center concept really useful? My "natural vision center" caused me to line up the cue crooked at set up requiring a mid stroke correction. I did this for decades until I took some advice from Mark Wilson. He said you can put your head anywhere as long as it is consistent. He recommended chin directly over cue. For me, the only position that allowed the cue to be aligned straight required my non dominant eye to be over the cue. It works nicely. "Vision center" isn't a real thing as far as I can tell. Makes me wonder if guys like Mosconi and Cicero were really opposite eye dominant, or if they just knew something I didn't (until now, lol).

Sounds to me like you proved the vision center concept.

pj
chgo

BilliardsAbout · Feb 25, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
When I get down on a cut shot, I almost always initially line up to undercut the shot. I'm not sure why, but I always do and it's annoying. I then have to adjust my aim slightly to make the ball. Sometimes I have to standup and realign and sometimes I can make a minor tweek while down.

Regardless, I would like to be able to get faster and more efficient at this process. I would like to be able to get down and aim the shot correctly the first time.

Does anyone know why I tend to always instinctively aim to undercut the shot?

Does anyone have any advice on how to practice aiming or setting up on the shot quicker?

The only thing I can think to do is take more time while standing to find the correct aiming point before getting down. I've tried this and it doesn't seem to fix my problem much.

The aiming method I use involves mostly just memorizing contact points/shot pictures. If its an uncommon shot I'll use the ghost ball to get a base aiming point and then adjust for deflection, throw, etc.

Everybody's rushing you, slow down the analysis!

1) Where do you stand, erect, to eye the upcoming shot? Where is your head, your feet your cue? On the full line between balls, the shot line, where?

2) How do you move from standing erect into the full stance?

Pidge · Feb 25, 2019

Dan White said:
Is the vision center concept really useful? My "natural vision center" caused me to line up the cue crooked at set up requiring a mid stroke correction. I did this for decades until I took some advice from Mark Wilson. He said you can put your head anywhere as long as it is consistent. He recommended chin directly over cue. For me, the only position that allowed the cue to be aligned straight required my non dominant eye to be over the cue. It works nicely. "Vision center" isn't a real thing as far as I can tell. Makes me wonder if guys like Mosconi and Cicero were really opposite eye dominant, or if they just knew something I didn't (until now, lol).

Sounds like you're confusing eye dominance with the term vision centre. Vision centre to me is how you sight something to allow for the intended cue and body alignment as well as being able to tell where centre cue ball is whilst down. I am extremely left eye dominant, but I sight a shot and have my cue pretty central between my eyes and on my chin.

Dan White · Feb 25, 2019

Pidge said:
Sounds like you're confusing eye dominance with the term vision centre. Vision centre to me is how you sight something to allow for the intended cue and body alignment as well as being able to tell where centre cue ball is whilst down. I am extremely left eye dominant, but I sight a shot and have my cue pretty central between my eyes and on my chin.

I haven't had time to respond to PJ or you, but let's start with a definition of what the vision center is before I discuss why I think it is possibly an incomplete or even misleading bit of terminology. You said "to me." What is the actual definition? Is Dr. Dave's description of vision center acceptable to everyone?

Also, why do you have your chin over the cue? Did you just naturally line up that way or was it a conscious decision to put your chin there?

Pidge · Feb 25, 2019

Dan White said:
I haven't had time to respond to PJ or you, but let's start with a definition of what the vision center is before I discuss why I think it is possibly an incomplete or even misleading bit of terminology. You said "to me." What is the actual definition? Is Dr. Dave's description of vision center acceptable to everyone?

Also, why do you have your chin over the cue? Did you just naturally line up that way or was it a conscious decision to put your chin there?

I don't know how Dr Dave is describing it. I've been out of the pool game for years now. I've described my definition. I'm not talking about anyone else's definition here.

I have my chin over the cue because that allows me to sight centre cue ball accurately and it makes potting angles look correct when I'm aligned properly and wrong when I'm not.

This was a conscious decision I made years ago. Once I discovered a way of testing my sighting abilities I put it into practice and started playing better. Much better. At this time when I discovered it I went from being around an 80 break snooker player to a consistent century break snooker player in around 3 months.

Learning a chin position and sticking with it is awful advice. Having your head over the shot a certain way can cause poor alignment. That poor alignment will create really poor mechanics in order for you to pot a ball.

Dan White · Feb 25, 2019

Pidge said:
I don't know how Dr Dave is describing it. I've been out of the pool game for years now. I've described my definition. I'm not talking about anyone else's definition here.

I have my chin over the cue because that allows me to sight centre cue ball accurately and it makes potting angles look correct when I'm aligned properly and wrong when I'm not.

This was a conscious decision I made years ago. Once I discovered a way of testing my sighting abilities I put it into practice and started playing better. Much better. At this time when I discovered it I went from being around an 80 break snooker player to a consistent century break snooker player in around 3 months.

Learning a chin position and sticking with it is awful advice. Having your head over the shot a certain way can cause poor alignment. That poor alignment will create really poor mechanics in order for you to pot a ball.

I'm a little confused. You said it was a conscious decision to put your chin over the cue. You then said you found a way of testing your sighting abilities and started playing better. Does that mean you no longer put your chin over the cue?

I had a feeling you had your own definition of "vision center." I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that it is difficult to discuss a point when everybody has their own definition. I think people throw that term around without really knowing what it is or whether it is even useful.

Patrick Johnson · Feb 25, 2019

Dan White said:
I haven't had time to respond to PJ or you, but let's start with a definition of what the vision center is before I discuss why I think it is possibly an incomplete or even misleading bit of terminology. You said "to me." What is the actual definition? Is Dr. Dave's description of vision center acceptable to everyone?

Here's Dave's definition:

https://billiards.colostate.edu/FAQ/eyes/vision-center/

"Your vision center is the head and eye alignment, relative to the cue, that allows you to see a center-ball, straight-in shot as straight, with the tip appearing to be at the center of the CB."

In other words, wherever you correctly see shot alignments.

What's not to like?

pj
chgo

Pidge · Feb 26, 2019

Dan White said:
I'm a little confused. You said it was a conscious decision to put your chin over the cue. You then said you found a way of testing your sighting abilities and started playing better. Does that mean you no longer put your chin over the cue?

I had a feeling you had your own definition of "vision center." I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just that it is difficult to discuss a point when everybody has their own definition. I think people throw that term around without really knowing what it is or whether it is even useful.

The testing showed me that having my chin over the cue was correct for me, so I made the conscious decision to do it like that. I've played that way ever since.

How to Aim Faster?

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