15th ball

Nine ... corner · Aug 2, 2019

In the same day I saw two different instances of how this should be handled. When the 15th (break ball for the next rack) ends up in the rack area where should it be placed? Once I noticed that they just made a full rack and once it was spotted to the head of the table. I've uncovered two sources on which is correct and they are in conflict. What say you experts? Thanks.

Bob Jewett · Aug 2, 2019

Nine ... corner said:
In the same day I saw two different instances of how this should be handled. When the 15th (break ball for the next rack) ends up in the rack area where should it be placed? Once I noticed that they just made a full rack and once it was spotted to the head of the table. I've uncovered two sources on which is correct and they are in conflict. What say you experts? Thanks.

The official rules are the World Standardized Rules which you can find on the WPA website. Another good source is the CSI/BCAPL rules which are on their website. The CSI rules have more explanation but are not identical to the WSR. Everyone who is really interested in any game should read through the rules of that game at least once. Few do.

To save a little searching:

If the 15th object ball is in the rack....

... usually it spots on the head spot, but

... if the cue ball is also in the rack, all 15 balls rack, or

... if the cue ball obstructs the head spot, the object ball goes on the center spot.

Nine ... corner · Aug 2, 2019

Thanks for the quick reply Bob. BTW, you forgot to list an excellent pool resource which is this forum and you which is the one I elected to use. See, I'm not lazy just smart.

measureman · Aug 2, 2019

In some instances leaving the break ball in the rack is a good option in two ways.
1-position the cue ball to play the spotted ball in the upper corner and send the cue ball two rails into the pack.
2-leave the cue ball so you can pocket the spotted ball and leave the cue ball frozen in the middle of the head rail,call safe first.

Bob Jewett · Aug 2, 2019

measureman said:
In some instances leaving the break ball in the rack is a good option in two ways.
1-position the cue ball to play the spotted ball in the upper corner and send the cue ball two rails into the pack. ...

Irving Crane had a different approach. He would leave the cue ball above a side pocket to have a half-ball cut with outside follow so the cue ball would hit just above the other side pocket and then the side spin would take it to the top two balls in the rack and then the cue ball would slide off them to the side rail and spin up to the center of the table. Like clockwork. He probably could have called his next ball each time.

DynoDan · Aug 4, 2019

Bob Jewett said:
Irving Crane had a different approach. He would leave the cue ball above a side pocket to have a half-ball cut with outside follow so the cue ball would hit just above the other side pocket and then the side spin would take it to the top two balls in the rack and then the cue ball would slide off them to the side rail and spin up to the center of the table. Like clockwork. He probably could have called his next ball each time.

??? I’d like to see that shot diagrammed.

Poolmanis · Aug 5, 2019

DynoDan said:
??? I’d like to see that shot diagrammed.

Second that..

AtLarge · Aug 6, 2019

DynoDan said:
??? I’d like to see that shot diagrammed.

Perhaps Bob meant "inside" instead of "outside."

Dan Harriman · Aug 6, 2019

Yep

Nine ... corner said:
In the same day I saw two different instances of how this should be handled. When the 15th (break ball for the next rack) ends up in the rack area where should it be placed? Once I noticed that they just made a full rack and once it was spotted to the head of the table. I've uncovered two sources on which is correct and they are in conflict. What say you experts? Thanks.

What ever you do - I would not suggest reading the graph they (bca) have designed to confuse the aspiring 14.1 player, the graph was scraped together by some individual that wanted you to try and solve a puzzle in order to just know the rules (probly a nine ball player that never could run a 100 in straight pool aka 'real pool' is the author of the graph). Also if last object ball is in the kitchen and white is left in the rack - cue ball is placed on head spot and player may opt to pocket object ball from there. That is one I did not know - and there was no ref at that world championship event any where near the table to help me. When I asked my opponent the rule he said he had forgotten the rule and thought we were to just rack all fifteen - he has multiple World titles so I think he knew the rule well.

It is important to know the rules, today there is no ref that will be there to help you - unless your in a vegas bar league.

Dan Harriman · Aug 6, 2019

Yep

Nine ... corner said:
In the same day I saw two different instances of how this should be handled. When the 15th (break ball for the next rack) ends up in the rack area where should it be placed? Once I noticed that they just made a full rack and once it was spotted to the head of the table. I've uncovered two sources on which is correct and they are in conflict. What say you experts? Thanks.

What ever you do - I would not suggest reading the graph they have designed to confuse the aspiring 14.1 player, the graph was scraped together by some individual that wanted you to try and solve a puzzle in order to just know the rules (probly a nine ball player that never could run a 100 in straight pool aka 'real pool'). Also if last object ball is in the kitchen and white is left in the rack - cue ball is placed on head spot and player may opt to pocket object ball from there.

Bob Jewett · Aug 7, 2019

DynoDan said:
??? I’d like to see that shot diagrammed.

I don't have my diagramming stuff with me.

Place an object ball on the head spot. Place the cue ball in the jaws of a side pocket. Move the cue ball 8 inches towards the spotted ball. Then move the cue ball 8 inches towards the head pocket on that side of the table. That will give you a cut shot into the head pocket on the other side of the table. If you play it with some follow and outside english, you will land on the opposite side rail on the head side of the side pocket. The outside english, if the correct amount, will spin you towards the rack.

measureman · Aug 7, 2019

Bob Jewett said:
I don't have my diagramming stuff with me.

Place an object ball on the head spot. Place the cue ball in the jaws of a side pocket. Move the cue ball 8 inches towards the spotted ball. Then move the cue ball 8 inches towards the head pocket on that side of the table. That will give you a cut shot into the head pocket on the other side of the table. If you play it with some follow and outside english, you will land on the opposite side rail on the head side of the side pocket. The outside english, if the correct amount, will spin you towards the rack.

Basic 14.1.
Been shooting that shot for 60 years.

DynoDan · Aug 7, 2019

Bob Jewett said:
I don't have my diagramming stuff with me.

Place an object ball on the head spot. Place the cue ball in the jaws of a side pocket. Move the cue ball 8 inches towards the spotted ball. Then move the cue ball 8 inches towards the head pocket on that side of the table. That will give you a cut shot into the head pocket on the other side of the table. If you play it with some follow and outside english, you will land on the opposite side rail on the head side of the side pocket. The outside english, if the correct amount, will spin you towards the rack.

OK. Got it. Likely the preferable shot on slower cloth, plus one less rail angle to calculate compared to a more central CB leave (?).

michael4 · Aug 29, 2019

……………………………….

Dan Harriman · Sep 5, 2019

yep ain't she a beaut

michael4 said:
……………………………….

This graph was designed to discourage any players who might be thinking outside the bar box - bar lag's don't want any competition - hence the graph. True Straight Pool is played on a 5x10.

ctyhntr · Sep 5, 2019

Bob Jewett,

Is there a diagram or chart for this?

Bob Jewett said:
The official rules are the World Standardized Rules which you can find on the WPA website. Another good source is the CSI/BCAPL rules which are on their website. The CSI rules have more explanation but are not identical to the WSR. Everyone who is really interested in any game should read through the rules of that game at least once. Few do.

To save a little searching:

If the 15th object ball is in the rack....

... usually it spots on the head spot, but

... if the cue ball is also in the rack, all 15 balls rack, or

... if the cue ball obstructs the head spot, the object ball goes on the center spot.

cascader · Sep 13, 2019

Bob Jewett said:
Irving Crane had a different approach. He would leave the cue ball above a side pocket to have a half-ball cut with outside follow so the cue ball would hit just above the other side pocket and then the side spin would take it to the top two balls in the rack and then the cue ball would slide off them to the side rail and spin up to the center of the table. Like clockwork. He probably could have called his next ball each time.

This might be helpful : https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=4798105&postcount=64

15th ball

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