How much is my Diamond table worth?

pwd72s · Apr 29, 2019

trentfromtoledo said:
I see them selling around $3500 for a 7' w/ light. Any higher and I advise people to just buy new.
Not sure if you are looking to upgrade, but, rather than messing around with re-working your rails, you can buy a new top for it for a very reasonable price. Contact Diamond directly to see what the replacement top would cost. Good luck!

Seems to me a print out of above should satisfy the IRS if deciding to go the charity donation route. BUT,,,better check with a CPA first.

FeelDaShot · Apr 30, 2019

$3,500 is what used diamond bar boxes go for. The light and balls add at least $500 value to that but the red label takes away a little value as well. I would post it for $3,500 and not budge much unless you are in a hurry to get rid of it.

Diamond bar boxes are hard to find and are in high demand by both bars and residential homes (regardless of color). I've heard of lots of people travelling a few states away to pick one up. When I was looking for a table I couldn't find one for sale anywhere.

Just post it for $3,500 minimum and be patient. There are lots of people out there just waiting to find a used Diamond. Advertise well to make sure you reach those people.

Scott Lee · Apr 30, 2019

Well, what can I say...you don't know what you don't know. Could I show you how to compensate? Nope, because you Mr mikemosconi, already know everything. Therefore, nobody could teach you anything. But if you ever find yourself in Battle Creek MI,and you come with an open mind, you could learn a lot from my buddy and fellow master instructor, Lance Cowles. Who would want a red lable Diamond? Plenty of folks...those who don't have the money for a new table, or those who have only played on Valley tables, or any of 100 other reasons.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

mikemosconi said:
Excuse me Sir Scott Lee, but a pool stroke has nothing to do with banking a ball on one table vs. another- are you an instructor or someone like me who has spent the last 55 years on pool tables of all sorts gambling and tourney play with superb results? A pool table either banks true/ short/or long period! Those Red labels- from MY experience/ bank horribly short- you really want to BUY a table like that to learn this game? it is a home table- so you want to adjust to the table, fine, a very good player can adjust to almost any table- in terms of banking on the red label the banking adjustment is either outside english on the cue ball or thinner hit on the object ball, or perhaps a slower bank speed- all three will help compensate for a short bank- I would not teach "stroke" for adjusting to a short bank table- maybe you can tell me what stroke training compensates for a short banking table???

logical · Apr 30, 2019

pwd72s said:
Idea...donate to a legit charity...like a Vets hospital, boys and girls club, etc. Then take the top dollar tax deduction.

pwd72s said:
Seems to me a print out of above should satisfy the IRS if deciding to go the charity donation route. BUT,,,better check with a CPA first.

I think someone has already corrected this but:

This is very bad and outdated advice (except the part about checking with someone who knows taxes...which may or not be a CPA).

If someone wants to give away a table out of kindness, fine. But the average wage earner will not reach the standard deduction threshold to be able to benefit from a $3000 non-cash charitable deduction. Unless you are doing it on top of $8,000-15,000 of donations you have already made, it isn't likely to reduce your taxes at all.

With the recent tax changes, a couple with a decent double income, sizeable mortgage, mid-level state taxes, already giving 5-10% of what the make to a church...will probably still not have enough deductions to reach the standard to itemize. My wife and I itemized every year for 20-30 years and benefited from it, this year we barely crested the limit.

KRJ · Apr 30, 2019

mikemosconi said:
Excuse me Sir Scott Lee, but a pool stroke has nothing to do with banking a ball on one table vs. another- are you an instructor or someone like me who has spent the last 55 years on pool tables of all sorts gambling and tourney play with superb results? A pool table either banks true/ short/or long period! Those Red labels- from MY experience/ bank horribly short- you really want to BUY a table like that to learn this game?

I don't like red label either. It's not only because of the banking, which you can adjust, but during the game you will shoot a bank and forget to compensate for it.
But it's also getting position off the rail, and the cb takes off on you and you miss your spot by a foot. Slow it down and it does not get to the rail.

There is a reason Diamond switched it. They are brutal to play on and I don't really want to have to adjust to a table that feels like a pinball table.

FeelDaShot · Apr 30, 2019

logical said:
I think someone has already corrected this but:

This is very bad and outdated advice (except the part about checking with someone who knows taxes...which may or not be a CPA).

If someone wants to give away a table out of kindness, fine. But the average wage earner will not reach the standard deduction threshold to be able to benefit from a $3000 non-cash charitable deduction. Unless you are doing it on top of $8,000-15,000 of donations you have already made, it isn't likely to reduce your taxes at all.

With the recent tax changes, a couple with a decent double income, sizeable mortgage, mid-level state taxes, already giving 5-10% of what the make to a church...will probably still not have enough deductions to reach the standard to itemize. My wife and I itemized every year for 20-30 years and benefited from it, this year we barely crested the limit.

I completely agree. This is the first year I didn't itemize with Schedule A. The standard deduction is very high now.

Cornerman · Apr 30, 2019

mikemosconi said:
In my opinion red label tables are useless as they are manufactured, the banking function is just too far off ( short) for anyone to learn how to bank properly, and I found the cut of the pocket rejected balls hit correctly on cut shots, so as someone else said - if this can be fixed for a price then factor that price into the reduction from current market value of an "as is" red label, unless you sell it to someone who does not know these facts.

It might be a vintage thing, but the red labels at Crooked Cue in Clearwater play amazingly well. They have Dymondwood rails and are just under 4 1/2” pockets.

I’ve played on some older Diamond tables that maybe needed som uograding.

Freddie <~~~ maybe it’s the tourque post

jrctherake · Apr 30, 2019

FeelDaShot said:
$3,500 is what used diamond bar boxes go for. The light and balls add at least $500 value to that but the red label takes away a little value as well. I would post it for $3,500 and not budge much unless you are in a hurry to get rid of it.

Diamond bar boxes are hard to find and are in high demand by both bars and residential homes (regardless of color). I've heard of lots of people travelling a few states away to pick one up. When I was looking for a table I couldn't find one for sale anywhere.

Just post it for $3,500 minimum and be patient. There are lots of people out there just waiting to find a used Diamond. Advertise well to make sure you reach those people.

Who, in their right mind.....would give 3,500 for a used red label and 500 for the light.

=4,000
+
Cost of moving....etc..

Add all ^^^^^^ up and:

Your not far from a NEW table with delivery/setup.

I guess it may if he finds someone that's willing to do A LOT of work to save just a VERY few bucks.

I personally, don't know anyone that would do that.

trentfromtoledo · Apr 30, 2019

jrctherake said:
Who, in their right mind.....would give 3,500 for a used red label and 500 for the light.

=4,000
+
Cost of moving....etc..

Add all ^^^^^^ up and:

Your not far from a NEW table with delivery/setup.

I guess it may if he finds someone that's willing to do A LOT of work to save just a VERY few bucks.

I personally, don't know anyone that would do that.

I tell people this all the time. Blue label with light is going to be $5500 with light, balls and rack. PLUS delivery and install. So depending on where you are is key, delivery is not cheap like it used to be. 3 piece install is $500 and lets say $500 more for delivery, $6500 is a lot bigger number than lets say $4500. $2k is a lot more for some people. Patience is what I preach : wait, save the extra and go new. There is a crazy market for used 7's!!!

Trent from Toledo

FeelDaShot · Apr 30, 2019

jrctherake said:
Who, in their right mind.....would give 3,500 for a used red label and 500 for the light.

=4,000
+
Cost of moving....etc..

Add all ^^^^^^ up and:

Your not far from a NEW table with delivery/setup.

I guess it may if he finds someone that's willing to do A LOT of work to save just a VERY few bucks.

I personally, don't know anyone that would do that.

I know it sounds crazy but that's the going rate. Regardless of the light's value, I don't think you'll get someone to pay $4,000. $3,500 is the magic number that's I've seen come up several times. These bar boxes hold their value extremely well.

A pool hall near me sold 4 blue label diamond bar boxes in bulk for $4,500 each with lights and balls. And that was at a discounted price since he sold them all in bulk. They were probably 5 year old tables. Kinda hard to believe but they play as good as brand new in my opinion and the price reflects that.

Smooth · Apr 30, 2019

I'd upgrade the rails on an old red label rosewood Dymondwood table before buying a new one... those rosewood Dymondwood tables were beautiful, and tough

SPetty · Apr 30, 2019

Thanks so much for all the good information everyone. Sounds like the desirability and value is all over the place! Hmmm.... FWIW, I love the table!

The charitable donation isn't something I could benefit from, so if I can sell it, I'd rather do that.

I'm not in a big hurry to sell it, but didn't want to price it too high and then have to bring the asking price down. When I see sellers do that on larger ticket items, it's often a sign that they are more anxious to sell and you can normally get it for even less than the new asking price.

Ideally, a price that I could haggle if needed, but is fair enough to garner as much attention as it can. If I set the asking price too high, people won't even make an offer, and as we know, the audience market for a nice little pool table is very limited!

I do appreciate all the good information and funny responses!

Cornerman · Apr 30, 2019

SPetty said:
Thanks so much for all the good information everyone. Sounds like the desirability and value is all over the place! Hmmm.... FWIW, I love the table!

The charitable donation isn't something I could benefit from, so if I can sell it, I'd rather do that.

I'm not in a big hurry to sell it, but didn't want to price it too high and then have to bring the asking price down. When I see sellers do that on larger ticket items, it's often a sign that they are more anxious to sell and you can normally get it for even less than the new asking price.

Ideally, a price that I could haggle if needed, but is fair enough to garner as much attention as it can. If I set the asking price too high, people won't even make an offer, and as we know, the audience market for a nice little pool table is very limited!

I do appreciate all the good information and funny responses!

Visit more, SPetty!

Freddie <~~~ a lifetime ago

tenfttall · Apr 30, 2019

10 months ago, I was going through the same red label/blue label debate. I researched a red label with a blue label top, getting the rails reworked, new vs used, etc.

I settled on a 2006 Red Label and I’m in love with it. Yes, it banks a little shorter but I don’t even notice it now. When I love to a Gold Crown, it takes 5-6 warm up banks to recalibrate me just fine.

In my experience, cloth age and condition, humidity and temperature are also elements that cause adjustments to to be needed, as well. So what difference does it make? To me, for my money, zippo.

Mark Gregory is an expert well know to this forum. He was kind enough to chat with me and advise me with nothing in it for him but love of the game. He made it crystal clear to me when he asked:

Are you some big money player that gambles out of your house commonly?

That was all it took for me to decide on the $3-4K I saved vs. buying a new Blue Label. Your mileage may vary.

I’ve never regretted my Red Label for one minute...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SPetty · Apr 30, 2019

Cornerman said:
Visit more, SPetty!

Freddie <~~~ a lifetime ago

Hey Freddie,

Aww, you remembered... :grin-loving:

Yep, a lifetime! I visit more often than I post, but normally don't log in just to look around. I do miss the "old days", but not so much the, um, drama. Hard to wade through sometimes...

-- SPetty

mikemosconi · Apr 30, 2019

ChicagoRJ said:
I don't like red label either. It's not only because of the banking, which you can adjust, but during the game you will shoot a bank and forget to compensate for it.
But it's also getting position off the rail, and the cb takes off on you and you miss your spot by a foot. Slow it down and it does not get to the rail.

There is a reason Diamond switched it. They are brutal to play on and I don't really want to have to adjust to a table that feels like a pinball table.

Thank you- I have tried playing on the Red Table 9 footers here at Diamonds in Cape Coral Fl- they are just brutal to play on with any consistency for ALL the reasons we all have mentioned- I have not been back to that room in 9 months and have only lived down here a year- that is how bad I see them! and the pool is free day long there- you can have them- even for free! As for Mr. Lee- You still have NOT told us what STROKE you claim makes these tables bank true- we are waiting for a REAL answer!

mikemosconi · Apr 30, 2019

Scott Lee said:
Well, what can I say...you don't know what you don't know. Could I show you how to compensate? Nope, because you Mr mikemosconi, already know everything. Therefore, nobody could teach you anything. But if you ever find yourself in Battle Creek MI,and you come with an open mind, you could learn a lot from my buddy and fellow master instructor, Lance Cowles. Who would want a red lable Diamond? Plenty of folks...those who don't have the money for a new table, or those who have only played on Valley tables, or any of 100 other reasons.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Let me do you one better Pal- looks like you live in largo Fl- i live in Naples FL there is a room Called Diamonds in cape coral Fl they have the old red labels- meet you there anytime and You show ME how a STROKE alone can compensate for a short bank- I will set up bank shots that would normally go on a GC with a medium speed, NO English, dead center hit on the object ball and YOU hit it THAT way and make it with your magic stroke- if your right I pay your carfare and buy you lunch, if it does not go with your magic STROKE, you owe me NOTHING. FAIR??

iusedtoberich · Apr 30, 2019

There is a room in NJ with qty 8 Diamond Barboxes. About half are red and the other half blue. I swear they play exactly the same: all 8 tables like a pinball machine.

realkingcobra · Apr 30, 2019

iusedtoberich said:
There is a room in NJ with qty 8 Diamond Barboxes. About half are red and the other half blue. I swear they play exactly the same: all 8 tables like a pinball machine.

And there can be a lot of reasons why that is, it's not the tables all the time, there are other things that can cause that kind of play on blue label, but if you was a good table mechanic....you'd ready know that, so don't be so fast to point a finger unless you can say for SURE the problem is with the tables.

9BallKY · May 1, 2019

realkingcobra said:
And there can be a lot of reasons why that is, it's not the tables all the time, there are other things that can cause that kind of play on blue label, but if you was a good table mechanic....you'd ready know that, so don't be so fast to point a finger unless you can say for SURE the problem is with the tables.

I’ve played on some red labels that you can’t really tell the difference in them and a blue label and I know they haven’t been converted. I’ve played on some that played terrible. I think most of it depends on who set the tables up.

How much is my Diamond table worth?

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