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Close to a solution - 12-16-2019, 08:41 AM

My stance is evolving and all of your comments are helping me get there. Thank you.


Turning my body slightly to the right by either moving the left foot forward (to the right), keeping it pointed down the line of the shot, or my back foot back a little (both have the same effect). This gives me clearance. It presents a slightly different perspective on the shot even though I "feel" like I am positioned the same. I missed a lot of shots yesterday but by the end of the day seemed to have it worked out. So I have a remaining question now. I have two choices.:

1. I change my stance for all shots where a normal stance is possible to this newer stance.
2. Stay with my original stance except where I need clearance for a bigger stroke.

Varying stance is something we all have to do all the time anyway to shoot off rails. over balls, long reach or using a bridge. So I think I could incorporate that into my game. BUT, having said that, my game is weaker with each of the above mentioned variations. So, maybe, it is better to make it my normal stance so I practice it more.

Your comments here would be appreciated.

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to give me input.
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UPDATE video
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UPDATE video - 12-16-2019, 04:07 PM

Here is the video you asked for https://youtu.be/GNJqnoqdPms It is a collection of excerpts from the video I sent to Tor Lowry for my Patreon program.

I apologize for the quality. I have never used the camera on my phone.

I learned a lot from watching the video itself.
1. I need to lose 50 lbs
2. I should record and watch myself more often
3. I come up out of way too many shots. I don't mind the break but not the others.
4. The cue tip does not end up on the cloth as often as it should.

Now you guys and gals can tear it apart from there.
  
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12-16-2019, 05:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
Here is the video you asked for https://youtu.be/GNJqnoqdPms It is a collection of excerpts from the video I sent to Tor Lowry for my Patreon program.

I apologize for the quality. I have never used the camera on my phone.

I learned a lot from watching the video itself.
1. I need to lose 50 lbs
2. I should record and watch myself more often
3. I come up out of way too many shots. I don't mind the break but not the others.
4. The cue tip does not end up on the cloth as often as it should.

Now you guys and gals can tear it apart from there.
I really wouldn't worry about your cue tip, ending up on the cloth.
I'd practice a straight lined up cue and follow through on that line.

When your cue is aligned down the shot line, follow through..... like your cue strokes toward the OB.

Stroke looks crooked now & your cue tip hits offset on the CB. Not a instructor. Just my observation.

Play well.

.


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12-16-2019, 06:04 PM

You need to have a session with an instructor.
Looks to me you lack fluidity . Your stroke is more like slow poke.
Looks like you are standing away from the shot line.


  
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12-16-2019, 07:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Kramden View Post
I really wouldn't worry about your cue tip, ending up on the cloth.

Stroke looks crooked now & your cue tip hits offset on the CB. Not a instructor. Just my observation.

Play well.

.
I am not sure how much the camera angle affects that. Dr. Dave shows videos that show strokes that look way off but are dead straight. Not saying that is it. Just saying it is hard to get that part good on a video and I have no clue how to get a straight line video.
  
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12-16-2019, 07:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
I am not sure how much the camera angle affects that. Dr. Dave shows videos that show strokes that look way off but are dead straight. Not saying that is it. Just saying it is hard to get that part good on a video and I have no clue how to get a straight line video.
Try drawing the cue ball dead straight back on a 4-diamond distance straight in shot.
Or follow the ball to the hole and scratch .
See if you can do it in high percentage.


  
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12-19-2019, 04:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenFlash777 View Post
"Elbow Drop" is just a big humbug from instrictors.
Jimmy Caras, Willie Mosconi, Eddie Talyor, Steve Mizerak, all dropped their elbows most of the time to get a good follow through.
Don't worry about it. Just shoot the balls in the holes.
This is an uninformed comment. Anyone reading this thread should ignore it.
  
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12-19-2019, 04:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
In all the training on stroke I have had and watched on video I don't see much mention of the upper arm. It is all about the forearm hanging straight down and not dropping the elbow. But looking at my stroke in a mirror I realized there could be a lot of variance in where my elbow is positioned. I saw most videos the players are bent way over and the upper arm is pretty straight and in line with their back. I have always let keeping the cue level and deciding where I want to hit the cue ball determine this and wherever my elbow was my forearm dropped straight down from there. But I notice my upper arm is not necessarily parallel to the floor. It may slope down quite a bit. The lower I hit the cue ball the lower everything gets as I keep the cue straight. But I COULD still hit low with my upper arm higher, I would just be hitting more down on the cue ball with a less level stroke.

I literally never considered raising my elbow. I just let the forearm swing from wherever the elbow was comfortable with a level cue. If I lift up on my elbow the cue tip points more down and I have to slightly raise my bridge. It is not as comfortable with my elbow higher and you may wonder why I would consider lifting it. The reason is clearance. I often hit my chest in the back swing and that knocks my stick offline. I have to stand a little more upright or move some way or another to get an unrestricted swing. This happens mostly on very long take backs for power draw or force follow shots.

So I get the forearm hangs straight down and the upper arm doesn't move and the elbow doesn't drop. But should the upper arm be parallel to the floor or does that even matter?
Your upper arm position at address depends on how low you stand to the shot. It does not have to be parallel to the floor. In fact, it rarely is. Dropping your upper arm with your stroke is fine, and yes, it's also totally fine to drop it before impact. You just have to understand what that means, why it's done, and how to do it. It's not necessary to do it on every shot. Try to do only what's necessary. It's more efficient that way. But keep in mind: You should avoid moving your upper arm up during your backstroke. The motion is downward only, and only on the forward stroke.
  
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12-19-2019, 05:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyInCali View Post
Try drawing the cue ball dead straight back on a 4-diamond distance straight in shot.
Or follow the ball to the hole and scratch .
See if you can do it in high percentage.
To be clear, how are you measuring 4 diamonds?

for Draw two diamonds to the cue ball and two diamonds back would be a 4 diamond draw as the draw wears off due to drag on the way to the object ball. A one diamond form the object ball and 3 back would also be 4 diamonds.

For follow it gets easier with a little distance as the drag helps you just like it hurts you in draw.

So two diamonds to the object ball and two more to the hole is a little easier than one to the object ball and 3 more to the hole.

I will set some up and see how I do. I have done these before but not for a long time.
  
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12-19-2019, 05:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
Your upper arm position at address depends on how low you stand to the shot. It does not have to be parallel to the floor. In fact, it rarely is. Dropping your upper arm with your stroke is fine, and yes, it's also totally fine to drop it before impact. You just have to understand what that means, why it's done, and how to do it. It's not necessary to do it on every shot. Try to do only what's necessary. It's more efficient that way. But keep in mind: You should avoid moving your upper arm up during your backstroke. The motion is downward only, and only on the forward stroke.
Hey Fran Merry Christmas!! I see your point and believe I was on a wrong track worrying about upper arm position all together. Here is what I discovered please tell me what you think.

I re-watched some stance videos, in particular one of Tor Lowry's. Here is what I learned and changed.

Before I started with the center of my body on the shot line. I think it should have been my stick, at my side, on the line. This moves me left some. (right handed).

Before I put the ball of my foot on the shot line, now I put my toes on the line.

Before my right foot was 30-45 degrees to the shot line. Now it is closer to 90.

Before I stepped forward and to the left with my left foot, more left than forward. Now I step more forward and only a little left with it. I noticed Tor's feet were closer together than mine.

Before my left foot was parallel to the shot line, it still is.

These changes just turn me a small amount but it is enough to give me clearance. It also feels like I am "sticking my butt out" when I drop into the shot. I don't lead the move with my butt but it does have more of that affect.

I end up with my body more left of the cue than over it. This gives me clearance and with my head turned to look straight down the cue it feels pretty good, not strained. My cue is away from my body and I kind of miss that security of having my body to help guide my stroke but that may be like training wheels on a bicycle. Not sure.
  
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12-19-2019, 05:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
Here is the video you asked for https://youtu.be/GNJqnoqdPms It is a collection of excerpts from the video I sent to Tor Lowry for my Patreon program.

I apologize for the quality. I have never used the camera on my phone.

I learned a lot from watching the video itself.
1. I need to lose 50 lbs
2. I should record and watch myself more often
3. I come up out of way too many shots. I don't mind the break but not the others.
4. The cue tip does not end up on the cloth as often as it should.

Now you guys and gals can tear it apart from there.
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.


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Last edited by Island Drive; 12-19-2019 at 05:48 PM.
  
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12-19-2019, 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.
Thanks Island Drive. Merry Christmas to you too.

Balance and stability solid clearance on long stroke is my issue. Stick bumps my chest on the back swing. I think I have it figured out see my post to Fran and let me know what you think.
  
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12-19-2019, 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipbales View Post
Thanks Island Drive. Merry Christmas to you too.

Balance and stability solid clearance on long stroke is my issue. Stick bumps my chest on the back swing. I think I have it figured out see my post to Fran and let me know what you think.
One thing at a time....maybe two. To make changes, it takes allot of work/time to incorporate, till you stop thinking about it....and it becomes second nature.


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Last edited by Island Drive; 12-19-2019 at 06:21 PM.
  
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12-19-2019, 07:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.
How much pressure would you say should be on your bridge hand?
  
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12-19-2019, 08:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Drive View Post
I just saw one Major thing, I didn't listen to the audio, I just watched your body.
Every stance has 3 places your body weight must be....before you set your bridge hand on the table.
Each area must be equal.
1 right foot
2 left foot
3 torso weight

If you were down and done with your bridge hand on the table. I would ask you to ''hold that position''.

Next I would walk up too you, and give you a slight push on your
waist, and I think it would be Easy to move your body sideways.

Think about a 3 legged chair, it can be pretty much on any flat surface, and ALWAYS be stable and ''in balance''.

Your third leg ''your torso weight'' is either too forward or too rearward. If I was there, at your home it possibly could be something else, but it doesn't appear to be that way from the video.

When your ''DOWN YOUR DONE''. When you place your hand on the play surface, it should NEVER move your body weight forward or rearward. Its just laying there to support the shaft.

If you feel the 1.2.3. change then you just put your entire body out of balance, a little, but a little in this game is HUGE.

If you feel that your weight is moving forward when you place your hand on the table, then start over, walk up to the shot and come either closer to the table before you put your bridge hand down, or walk up a little further away before you put your bridge hand on the play surface. In your video, your all over the place.

Be extremely aware of your torso weight, the Third leg/balance point of your stance/Total Body.

It's identical to a Karate stance before the kick. 1/2/3 are equal in their overall weight distribution, this keeps the person body BALANCED.

This will help
, have a merry xmas and a great new year.
I'm not an instructor
I am an amateur
but I admit I noticed this as well
and I know what it looks like to be unbalanced
because I've been there, and still find myself there once in awhile
I don't think it can be disputed that (when we're standing on the ground)
our body posture begins with our feet
I think footwork in pool is underrated really
finding a comfortable, stable foundation can't hurt
I find that having a strong core helps me be stable
especially in awkward positions
anyway you don't look like you're in bad shape
that you seek to improve is vital
and I bet if you keep working on it, thinking about it, and practicing
you will improve!

good luck and happy holidays


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by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

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