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Adding side spin to a medium range angle shot
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judochoke
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Adding side spin to a medium range angle shot - 03-17-2019, 05:26 AM

When Iím trying to add some side spin to a angle shot, should I use front hand English, or back hand English?? Moving the bridge hand or keeping the bridge hand stationary and moving the back hand to get my side spin???
  
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Bob Jewett
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03-17-2019, 07:46 AM

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Originally Posted by judochoke View Post
When Iím trying to add some side spin to a angle shot, should I use front hand English, or back hand English?? Moving the bridge hand or keeping the bridge hand stationary and moving the back hand to get my side spin???
I think that by "angle" shot you probably mean "cut" shot, or a shot that is not straight in -- it has a cut angle other than zero.

Whether you need to use front-hand, back-hand, parallel, cross-over, or air-pivot correction for squirt depends on your cue, the cloth, the length of the shot, how close the cue ball is to the cushion, and the cleanliness of the balls. Dr. Dave has a DVD that gives a complete accurate description of what's required.

In the meantime I suggest you practice a half-ball cut shot with inside and outside english and gradually increase the amount of spin and the distance of the shot.


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Patrick Johnson
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03-17-2019, 10:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Dr. Dave has a DVD that gives a complete accurate description of what's required.
Which you can find here:

Dr. Dave's System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS)

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Patrick Johnson
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03-17-2019, 10:58 AM

...duplicate post...

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 03-19-2019 at 07:55 AM.
  
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03-19-2019, 06:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think that by "angle" shot you probably mean "cut" shot, or a shot that is not straight in -- it has a cut angle other than zero.

Whether you need to use front-hand, back-hand, parallel, cross-over, or air-pivot correction for squirt depends on your cue, the cloth, the length of the shot, how close the cue ball is to the cushion, and the cleanliness of the balls. Dr. Dave has a DVD that gives a complete accurate description of what's required.

In the meantime I suggest you practice a half-ball cut shot with inside and outside english and gradually increase the amount of spin and the distance of the shot.
.....Or you can do the exact same thing every time and just adjust your aim.


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05-09-2019, 05:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
I think that by "angle" shot you probably mean "cut" shot, or a shot that is not straight in -- it has a cut angle other than zero.

Whether you need to use front-hand, back-hand, parallel, cross-over, or air-pivot correction for squirt depends on your cue, the cloth, the length of the shot, how close the cue ball is to the cushion, and the cleanliness of the balls. Dr. Dave has a DVD that gives a complete accurate description of what's required.

In the meantime I suggest you practice a half-ball cut shot with inside and outside english and gradually increase the amount of spin and the distance of the shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FranCrimi View Post
.....Or you can do the exact same thing every time and just adjust your aim.

Many paths lead to Rome, as we say over here.

I mostly use back hand English (BHE) and slightly vary my bridge length on most shots: a tad longer than the cue's pivot point when I expect the cue ball to swerve, and equal to the shaft's pivot point when shooting harder or close to the object ball. I use the arrow patterns on my ash shaft to know how long my bridge and where the pivot point is, but if I had a maple cue I would probably mark it with a pencil for the same visual feedback.

So to the OP: if you want to correct the English induced deflection, you must rotate the cue around your shaft's pivot point. Probably requires a little bit of BEH and a little bit of forehand English (FHE), depending on where your bridge hand is in relation to the pivot point and how much of an effect you judge the swerve to have.

I find that to be the easiest way of adjusting the effects of side spin, as it removes the necessity to accurately judge the distance between cue ball (cb) and object ball (ob) and is independent of the exact magnitude of side spin. One is basically correcting the angle offset between aiming line and cue line induced by the side spin.

Of course, swerve will always have an effect that varies with distance and speed, and requires good judgement, but that is true for any way of aiming with side spin.

But If there were no swerve, it wouldn't matter if a half ball cut shot was 1 or 8 feet away, and whether you use half a tip of English or strike near the miscue limit. (Ignoring here that the angle of the cue downwards might be different and spin induced throw, of course.)

That is not the case for adjusting the aim point on the object ball, i.e. aim thinner on a cut to the right with left English in order to compensate for the cue ball deflection to the right. (If you didn't mean that by adjusting your aim Fran, then my apologies. And in any case, don't interpret this as an attempt to undermine. I highly appreciate the wealth of knowledge in your responses in this forum. But I thought about and experimented with this stuff a lot, hence I feel the need to post.). One must adjust their aim depending on both the amount of spin and the distance between cb and ob. As one isn't correcting the angle offset described above, the deflection will increase with cb-ob distance and with tip offset. So two more things to judge than with pivot based compensation.

Having said that, I always resort to adjusting my aim point when I have to cue with a bridge length much shorter or longer than the pivot point, e.g. cue ball close to the rail or having to bridge over other balls. I haven't found a way to correctly adjust the line of the cue other than pivoting around my bridge, and swerve is usually much more of a problem in those cases.

I guess in the end it all comes down to practice and the individual's talent and dedication. But at least theoretically pivot based compensation removes two judgement calls that require lots of practice. It might just be easier to learn when you have limited time dedicated to the game.

Last edited by deraltefritz; 05-09-2019 at 05:37 AM.
  
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05-18-2019, 01:59 PM

I have posted this technique before and thought it might help you in this instance because you are trying to establish a margin of error using various techniques.

Shoot from the head string and put the object ball just past the side pocket. Place both the cue ball and object ball 1/4 inch off the rail. You will be shooting a straight in shot. This will make the effective corner pocket opening very small.

After you become proficient with that shot using draw, stop, and follow; then go to the next trying step that will make an honest man out of you. Shoot the stop shot using right or left English with FHE or BHE or any combination. The cue ball should stop and spin in place and the object ball should pocket. After you are proficient try high right...low right ...etc.


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