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05-14-2019, 03:08 PM

Ed Kelley told me that eddie taylor was the best

Kelly felt like he could beat Ronnie,but always got spotted because
it was smart to take a spot

Right before he died Eddie said he thought he could beat,or rather tony C would need 9 to 7 to play him in his prime



Ed Kelly was not boastful like jersey red or Fats,he was modest

If Billy Incardone is reading,we could all benefit from your expert analysis or ranking

Billy knows one hole like very few,he has played all of the greats and watched or commented on so many more games than anyone who ever lived,his comments will settle the question at least for me
  
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Marshal carpenter top 5
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Marshal carpenter top 5 - 05-15-2019, 10:04 AM

Just called Marshal Carpenter talked to him for a bit when I seen this post, and got his input.
He only give me his top 4 pics. I couldn’t get a 5th from him so I’ll just put his name down lol

Efren Reyes
Hayden lingo
Johnny Fitzpatrick
Gene Metz (Clem)

Marshal always said he was turned out by rags in the late 40s.
In early 60s when marshal was in his prime and beating the world he lost to Hayden lingo in Shreveport la getting 9-7. Said he broke him. Always said Hayden done things in one pocket that looked like a trick shot show. And kicked better than anyone he had played. Marshal at 91 has seen new age one pocket I know because we have been to derby several times in the past, but them 3 next to efren especially Hayden lingo are the ones he brings up the most. So if there is a pre 70 top 3 or 4 I would bet them 3 are it.
  
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Best One Hole Ever..
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Best One Hole Ever.. - 05-15-2019, 10:08 AM

I agree with PT109.
Players must be compared by ERA. It's impossible to cross-mix generations.
The SKILL LEVEL, TOUGHER COMPETITION, SUPERIOR EQUIPMENT, AVAILABLE LEARNING TECHNIQUES, etc... is so much more Higher & Better today.

One can make a similar argument in Golf, Basketball, Baseball, Boxing, Tennis etc..
Players of today are bigger, stronger, smarter, and better equipped that players from 50-60 years.

All Great players fades away in time...

Ronnie Allen was a pioneer.
Chohan is Super Aggressive and fun to watch..
Shannon Dalton had a short run but disappeared.
S. Frost couldn't keep up with the avalanche of new talent.
Grady Mathews, really ?

10 Years ago, I'd say EFREN. He was MOST dominating.
Today, who knows. Anyone of 10 players can win.

In Straight Pool, I think John Schmidt would destroy Mosconi today...
  
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05-15-2019, 10:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightmark View Post
I agree with PT109.
Players must be compared by ERA. It's impossible to cross-mix generations.
The SKILL LEVEL, TOUGHER COMPETITION, SUPERIOR EQUIPMENT, AVAILABLE LEARNING TECHNIQUES, etc... is so much more Higher & Better today.

One can make a similar argument in Golf, Basketball, Baseball, Boxing, Tennis etc..
Players of today are bigger, stronger, smarter, and better equipped that players from 50-60 years.

All Great players fades away in time...

Ronnie Allen was a pioneer.
Chohan is Super Aggressive and fun to watch..
Shannon Dalton had a short run but disappeared.
S. Frost couldn't keep up with the avalanche of new talent.
Grady Mathews, really ?

10 Years ago, I'd say EFREN. He was MOST dominating.
Today, who knows. Anyone of 10 players can win.

In Straight Pool, I think John Schmidt would destroy Mosconi today...
yep, it's not even comparable. the only one of the old guard that might stand a chance today is efren. we will soon know.
  
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05-15-2019, 11:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxOnePocket View Post
Its my contention that the players of old would need weight to even play with the top tier players of today, I know its great and all to remember these titans of pool as the best, but Efren and Parica are the only 2 to make that list to me.

1. Alex ( in his prime now )
2. Efren
3. Parica
4. Scott Frost ( people will scoff at this one but in his prime he changed the game )
5. Dennis Orcollo

Cliff - Ronnie Allen - Shannon Daulton

I intentionally left off players from very long ago because no one's alive that truly knows there speed and the equipment they played on was so subject.

Actually, Jay Helfert is still around and he can vouch for Ronnie's dominance..
and he likes Dennis's game (Me too). I'd put Ronnie above Parica for One
Pocket, and I loved Parica's game... fierce!
  
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05-15-2019, 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner View Post
Actually, Jay Helfert is still around and he can vouch for Ronnie's dominance..
and he likes Dennis's game (Me too). I'd put Ronnie above Parica for One
Pocket, and I loved Parica's game... fierce!
See post 62. Marshall Carpenter, who is over 90, is still alive and he not only knows the speed of the old-timers of the 40's and 50's but he played against all of them, too.
  
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05-17-2019, 03:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoolBum View Post
Abracadabra!
!

Existentialist!


Olivier Sneaky Pete
Olivier Custom Four Point
Espirito
Jackson
  
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05-22-2019, 05:22 PM

Okay, here we go. ALL the old timers revered Hayden Lingo. He was either the creator of the game of One Pocket or the one who popularized it, or both! What I remember is that all of them said he was the greatest ever at the game. As for Rags Fitzpatrick, he was the dominant player of the 40's and 50"s, pretty much unbeatable by anyone. Unfortunately he died young at age 40 in 1960. I do not know his cause of death.

Both these men were before my time and I never saw either one play. I just know from the mouths of those that did they were the two best and most highly respected players of their era. Lingo was much older but there was some overlap to their careers and I don't know if they ever played or who won if they did. Continued below.


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05-22-2019, 05:44 PM

Efren and Ronnie were the two best I ever saw at One Pocket. Many people swore by Taylor, mostly because of his banking ability, but I never saw him play Ronnie and they were in the same room many times. It's possible they had too much respect for each other's game. I have heard of them playing with mixed results.

I don't like to say this, but many of Ronnie's games could be suspect. You had to know when he was playing to win or just playing to beat the rail. I happened to see him play many times when all his money was on the line and he needed to win. He was the most amazing (and dominant) One Pocket player I ever saw. He was highly creative (like Chohan) but with far more control. He knew exactly what he was doing at all times. I have yet to see any player move balls toward his hole like Ronnie. He had a way of turning the game around with one shot and sending multiple balls streaming towards his pocket. It"s a lost art as far as I'm concerned. He could read the pack better than anyone and shoot off angle combinations also better than anyone else I've ever seen play. Most players today struggle with these shots, but not Ronnie. He could also kick two or more rails with amazing accuracy, hitting the pack exactly where he wanted with the perfect speed to execute a perfect safety or drive balls toward his pocket. He turned around many games from what looked like hopeless positions to his advantage with a brilliant kick shot. To be continued


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05-22-2019, 06:01 PM

Ronnie often was playing to ten, giving up games like 10-6 to good players and 10-8 to his closest rivals. He ran ten and out over and over again, making several difficult shots in each run. He was never afraid to go for a tough combo or super thin cut to keep a run going. His ten and outs were things of beauty and constantly astounded those of us who witnessed them. Oh how I wish there were some on tape.

And Ronnie was a great gambler, saving his best pool for the biggest bets and when all the chips were on the line.
He never backed down for a bet and was always ready to raise the stakes. Like all true champions he thrived on pressure! I rarely, if ever, saw Ronnie miss his out ball, no matter how difficult the shot was.

He also had the gift of gab, exuding confidence at all times. He could also wear you down with his conversation, designed to demoralize you. One last thing. Ronnie would never quit. He kept playing until you tapped out. He was always looking to maximize his score. He was like a lion with a wounded animal. More to come


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05-22-2019, 06:25 PM

Efren was the next truly great player to come along, dominating the One Pocket world for over twenty years, just like Ronnie had done before him. Efren's creativity was other worldly, coming up with shots that no one else saw or even considered. He made the impossible possible! And he made it look easy. Efren was also the best pure shot maker, cutting balls backwards and making weird billiards and trick shots unknown to the rest of us.

No one ever ran the balls when they were all up table like Efren. Putting the balls up table was no defense against him. He could run seven or eight and out with every ball above the head string. I never saw anyone else even close to him in this respect. His real strength was his cue ball control. He could maneuver the cue ball in tight quarters better than anyone else ever. His fine touch was like the deft hands of a magician, thus his nickname.

And Efren loved to play good players, thriving on the best opponents he could find, often giving them games they had never gotten before. Efren spotted the world two balls or more, something even Ronnie had never done.


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Last edited by jay helfert; 05-23-2019 at 02:50 AM.
  
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05-22-2019, 06:36 PM

Jay, you are a bottomless pit of information. Great posts.

Just adding something about Efren --- the great Johnny Ervolino observed that Efren was the greatest user of inside english in the game's history and that Efren did things with inside english that many of the old timers didn't even think possible.
  
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05-22-2019, 08:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightmark View Post
I agree with PT109.
Players must be compared by ERA. It's impossible to cross-mix generations.
The SKILL LEVEL, TOUGHER COMPETITION, SUPERIOR EQUIPMENT, AVAILABLE LEARNING TECHNIQUES, etc... is so much more Higher & Better today.

One can make a similar argument in Golf, Basketball, Baseball, Boxing, Tennis etc..
Players of today are bigger, stronger, smarter, and better equipped that players from 50-60 years.

All Great players fades away in time...

Ronnie Allen was a pioneer.
Chohan is Super Aggressive and fun to watch..
Shannon Dalton had a short run but disappeared.
S. Frost couldn't keep up with the avalanche of new talent.
Grady Mathews, really ?

10 Years ago, I'd say EFREN. He was MOST dominating.
Today, who knows. Anyone of 10 players can win.

In Straight Pool, I think John Schmidt would destroy Mosconi today...

Saw Mosconi play several times, after he’d had a stroke, was retired and in his 60s.

I have seen JS play many times, presumably in his prime, and intending no disrespect towards him I would have to say that in a long match Mosconi would win going away. It would not be close.

Lou Figueroa
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05-22-2019, 08:17 PM

FWIW, over the years I have had the good fortune to play many of the players on these lists.

It was in short tournament matches and from those snapshots I would have to say that the three guys that impressed me the most were:

1. Efren. He is called “The “Magician” for good cause and he will do things to you that will leave you scratching your head.

2. Bustamonte. He is a player that will grab hold of your air hose and give you nothing until you pass out. No shots and not even an angle to play safe, all the while leaving you in the middle of the table.

3. Parica. He is a terror. And after you leave him exactly where you wanted he will walk to the table with a big smile on his face and slice a ball down the length of the rail and spin the CB three rails for the out. A few games of that and you get weak in the knees.

I have played Alex and Scott and several others but am not sure where they factor in on a top five list given all the new talent. But the three guys I listed are worthy, IMO.

Lou Figueroa
  
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05-23-2019, 01:43 AM

I’ve heard several Top One-Pocket Players, Road Warriors, and Eye-Ballers say that nobody wanted to play Bugs even in his Prime, and even more said the same about Parica! Parica said that he bet his own Money, and you could break him, and he’d get some more money, so that you could get some more, if you had the Heart to play him! Parica also said he had a winning record against Efren, in One-Pocket and 9-ball!
  
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