Help with stroke so I can quit embarrassing myself

Skippy27

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A couple training aids you may want to look into are the QMD (www.cue-md.com) and the Third Eye Trainer (www.joetucker.net/product/3rd-eye-stroke-trainer).

I have both of these devices.

Cue-MD I actually just started using it again as I am working hard on my stroke. I am up in the air on this one though.

The cue-md is questionable because it is not very reliable in it's feedback, too many times it completely missing shots, marks a shot about a 1/2 second after you already hit the cue ball or marks a shot just randomly as you move the stick.

I also used masking tape to permanently mount it to a stick as I got sick of it sliding down it.

The feed back I simply am up in the air about. You can look at the animation from side/top/back and you pretty much are guessing at what it is trying to tell you at what point in the stroke, especially if it doesn't count it at the right time, if at all.

It would also be much better if they actually showed you a complete perfect stroke on it to compare your shoot to.

The 3rd Eye I haven't spent much time with as I really got it for the kids to help them learn. When I first got and tried it and didn't have an issue finding / stroking center.
 

Brian in VA

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's my two cents. The fact that it's not constant leads me to believe that you aren't setting up to the shot properly and your base isn't the same every time.

I do recommend an instructor who can watch you and provide clear assistance. In the meantime, work to develop a pre-shot routine that starts with how you set up, place your feet, arrange your body so that it's the same every time.

Now go find that instructor.

Brian in VA
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I can help you get stoked about your stroke...

Hey everyone. I am hoping for a little help with my stoke. I know it can be a little difficult because i have no pics/video of my stoke. Hopefully you guys can give me a little insight on some ideas to try.

Here is the issue,I am occasionally putting right english on my shots. I don't know how or why of course. And it is not consistent at all. It just happens sometime. I do not seem to notice any left english ever being put on the ball mainly just right. I would say maybe one out of three shots. I shot with a measles cue ball at home and notice the spin.

I normally shoot with a closed bridge but have tried an open bridge and do use an open bridge on shots that i need to stretch and the bridge seems to make no difference. Also i have recently moved where I place my back hand, from the bottom of the wrap to the cue butt. That also made no difference.

The reason I say so I can quit embarrassing myself is that the two weeks that i have been in a league on the lag. I have shot on the left hand side. Both times my cue ball has hit the opposing rail and english takes affect and i have hit my opponents ball.

Any help is appreciated.

I'm sure if I help you with your stroke, you'll get really stoked about pool...

Jaden
 

slach

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Skippy,
About your QMD unit, contact the help desk - info<at>cue-md.com. Your issues aren't normal. Maybe your unit got banged around a bit and needs re-calibration.


I have both of these devices.

Cue-MD I actually just started using it again as I am working hard on my stroke. I am up in the air on this one though.

The cue-md is questionable because it is not very reliable in it's feedback, too many times it completely missing shots, marks a shot about a 1/2 second after you already hit the cue ball or marks a shot just randomly as you move the stick.

I also used masking tape to permanently mount it to a stick as I got sick of it sliding down it.

The feed back I simply am up in the air about. You can look at the animation from side/top/back and you pretty much are guessing at what it is trying to tell you at what point in the stroke, especially if it doesn't count it at the right time, if at all.

It would also be much better if they actually showed you a complete perfect stroke on it to compare your shoot to.

The 3rd Eye I haven't spent much time with as I really got it for the kids to help them learn. When I first got and tried it and didn't have an issue finding / stroking center.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
well, lots of good advise. But for now, when you lag, at the last second, scoot that tip over 1/4 tip and shoot so you at least get a decent lag. This won't fix the problem, just a stop gap measure to not hit the other guys ball? I've never seen that before. I'm assuming you automatically lose the lag if you hit his ball?

Kentucky Windage. If you are shooting low on the target, aim very high. If you are hitting target to the left, aim to the right of the target ;)
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have someone stand behind you.See if on the forward stroke you are twisting your wrist in towards your body.That will put right hand English on the cue ball.
That is assuming you play right handed.
 

Break and One

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would guess ur vision center is off causing u to think ur hitting center. Dr. Dave has a lot of info. on vision center and finding center cue ball. Google Dr. Dave pool.

This is one are I know, that i know very little about. I have done some searching on figuring out certain pool things. This is an area i have not looked into what so ever.

Have someone stand behind you.See if on the forward stroke you are twisting your wrist in towards your body.That will put right hand English on the cue ball.
That is assuming you play right handed.

I think this might be my issue.

I made it to the pool hall today to practice a little and ended up playing some friendly games with another guy there. So i was not exactly practicing on my stroke and was using shots that had english.

I am right handed.

Another thing i think i could be doing incorrectly is my bridge hand. Like i mentioned I normally I shoot with a closed bridge. I noticed two things today. Their is very little pressure on my bridge hand. I am basically in that position with all my weight on my feet and just bent over the table. I saw someone mentioned being a tripod. The second part is a little harder to explain but hopefully it makes sense. When my pointer finger and thumb touch to create an area for the shaft to slide through. Neither finger is touching my middle finger. I do not know how big of a deal this is. I just happened to find an old Earl Strickland training video showing how to make a closed bridge and in every variation your pointer finger and thumb should be resting on the middle finger.I do not know if i should necessarily be listening to Earl Strickland cause he would probably just tell me to use weights to keep my arm from moving.

Also I am looking into an instructor. I posted another thread on here about instructors in my area. I am lucky that i have 2 very good instructors around me both of which are about 3.5 hour drive from me. I was able today to ask at the pool hall about instructors and they said there was a local guy, who charges 30.00 an hour, that some of the locals take lessons from and are happy with it.

Once again I appreciate all the replies. When I get a little more time, I will go through all the suggestions thoroughly. I have thought about looking into some of the training aids and saw some guys mentioned a few.
 

Masseyman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Here's my two cents. The fact that it's not constant leads me to believe that you aren't setting up to the shot properly and your base isn't the same every time.

I do recommend an instructor who can watch you and provide clear assistance. In the meantime, work to develop a pre-shot routine that starts with how you set up, place your feet, arrange your body so that it's the same every time.

Now go find that instructor.

Brian in VA

Now my 2 cents. :)

Brian has some good advice. For years I struggled with the exact same issue.

Here is what my problem was (and sometimes still is);
1. I never had a good pre-shot routine. I never stepped into the line of aim the same way. I never went through the same motions as I was getting down on my shot, this led to problem 2.
2. After getting down on the shot, I adjusted my elbow and shoulder to the line of aim. This is bad! And, I'll tell you why. Your body likes to fall into a natural rhythm and move in a certain direction when you are not concentrating on it. What does that mean? When you focus on the parts of a shot you should be focusing on, your muscle memory and natural stroke always do what they naturally do. You can't focus on everything at once.

Here is how I found out #2 by accident;
I was practicing a straight in shot over and over, while down on the shot I was thinking about the spot on the object ball I needed to hit (cause I kept rattling the object ball), I was down on the shot for a extended period of time thinking. While I was thinking, I let my body relax with no stroke movement, after my thought process finished, I noticed my tip was pointing at the right side of the cue. I quickly readjusted my elbow and arm to line the tip with the center of the cue, then I had an epiphany. I grabbed my GoPro and set it up facing me, and shot the same shot again 10 times. after watching the slow mo replay, I noticed as my fore arm came back and stopped, my elbow settled into a natural comfortable position before I delivered the stroke. This new position always applied right english to the cue.

If you have a video camera, I suggest you video yourself to see exactly what your issue really is.

You can also do a quick test the same way I found out by accident. Setup a straight in shot. Get down on the shot. Come to a complete stop with no movement. Relax a little and see if your tip moves.
Don't mistake this quick test as a prove-all method for determining your issue.
But it might give you a little insight into the "faults of your stroke".
 

genomachino

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Most players have this problem but don't even know it?

One more thing I did not mention in my original post. I am not having any issues with aiming. Or at least no issues I am noticing. Like I said I have not been playing very long so I am not saying my aim is perfect. I will still make the shots that I put small amounts of of the accidental right English on.

I started a thread on this a few months ago but how do you explain a problem that players don't even understand that they have.

It has to do with the dominant eye as to which side of center you line up on accidently.

Your probably right eye dominant. Your dominant eye is just a little to the right of center when you aim a long straight in shot and then close your left eye. This is OK and just the way it is. Neither eye is directly in the center unless you aim with only one eye like a gun. About 5% of all players are one eyed with both eyes open. The dominant eye seems to be the determining factor for sure.

First being right eye dominant you need to start with your head as far to the left as you can in the preshot. Then come down looking at the object ball on the way down. Now that the dominant eye is in the most dominant position you can adjust your cue and make sure it is in the center. This will help greatly.

Now when you look at the cue ball you can actually see that you are not in the center and correct it while in the shooting position.

I worked with about 50 players here in Minnesota to learn how to fix it. By getting the dominant eye in the most dominant position you can get to the center. if not you still can't even tell.

The other part of this problem is that when you are shooting a shot where you need to get allot of left English your not getting as much as you want.

When applying right English you get over as far as you want easily.

This is a huge problem because if your not getting the spin you want when you use left English your not getting the cue ball to go where you want to.

I really need to get a video out about these 2 problems.

It's a huge problem for players of all levels. The more you play the more naturally you adjust for this problem but it's still there..

This is not just a theory but hard facts that I have come up with by studying and working with players.

Good Luck. I hope this helps.
 
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DJ14.1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone. I am hoping for a little help with my stoke. I know it can be a little difficult because i have no pics/video of my stoke. Hopefully you guys can give me a little insight on some ideas to try.

Here is the issue,I am occasionally putting right english on my shots. I don't know how or why of course. And it is not consistent at all. It just happens sometime. I do not seem to notice any left english ever being put on the ball mainly just right. I would say maybe one out of three shots. I shot with a measles cue ball at home and notice the spin.

I normally shoot with a closed bridge but have tried an open bridge and do use an open bridge on shots that i need to stretch and the bridge seems to make no difference. Also i have recently moved where I place my back hand, from the bottom of the wrap to the cue butt. That also made no difference.

The reason I say so I can quit embarrassing myself is that the two weeks that i have been in a league on the lag. I have shot on the left hand side. Both times my cue ball has hit the opposing rail and english takes affect and i have hit my opponents ball.

Any help is appreciated.

If you can find a way to post some video of your stroke, you'll get pretty good insight here. Alot of the earlier advice may be right, but we're flying blind without seeing your stroke.
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
quit embarrassing myself

Not thinking this way will improve your game. Spending time being embarrassed by ones actions applies NO thought to your mistake/mistakes other than YOUR embarrassed. It's like your more worried about what others are thinking, kinda of a weird way of treating yourself when you make a mistake. Look inward into your character and find out why being embarrassed and what others think....is more important.
 

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
I would guess ur vision center is off causing u to think ur hitting center. Dr. Dave has a lot of info. on vision center and finding center cue ball. Google Dr. Dave pool.
For those interested, drills that can be used to test visual alignment, tip position accuracy, and stroke effectiveness can be found on the vision center resource page.

I hope some people find the resources useful.

Regards,
Dave
 

Masseyman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For those interested, drills that can be used to test visual alignment, tip position accuracy, and stroke effectiveness can be found on the vision center resource page.

I hope some people find the resources useful.

Regards,
Dave

I love your site Dr. Dave! I have spent many hours researching your material to help me improve my game and fundamentals.
I have visited your "Vision Center" page recently trying to improve my long cut down the rail shot. I still need a lot of work, but I am grateful your resources are available.
 

Break and One

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone I appreciate all the advice. My big issue was consistency. Like trying to hit the ball straight ahead and have it come back straight to my stick. Sometimes it came back to me and sometime it did not.

Here is the update though. I took my first pool lesson today. And found some issues with my game. Apparently almost everything i was doing was off.

The first thing we worked on was a basic pre shot routine. I always walked up to the table. Surveyed it and stepped back right into my stance and shot. Any adjustments I need to make I adjusted my front and back hand for it. So worked on a basic pre shot routine before every working on my shot.

For my shot there was several issues. My wrist is crooked, my forearm is crooked and my head was crooked.

We talked about my dominant eye which is my right eye he told me.I was not lining up on center ball. I was lining up on the right side which would cause my right english.

So we worked on straightening everything out so I can have a consistent shot.

Overall I am very happy with my first lesson. I spent about 2.5 hours tonight working on everything. It still feels odd but hopefully overtime it all straightens out.

So once again thank you all for the advice. A lot of you were correct on what you though the issues were, So I appreciate all the advice from the AZ community.
 

pocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey everyone I appreciate all the advice. My big issue was consistency. Like trying to hit the ball straight ahead and have it come back straight to my stick. Sometimes it came back to me and sometime it did not.

Here is the update though. I took my first pool lesson today. And found some issues with my game. Apparently almost everything i was doing was off.

The first thing we worked on was a basic pre shot routine. I always walked up to the table. Surveyed it and stepped back right into my stance and shot. Any adjustments I need to make I adjusted my front and back hand for it. So worked on a basic pre shot routine before every working on my shot.

For my shot there was several issues. My wrist is crooked, my forearm is crooked and my head was crooked.

We talked about my dominant eye which is my right eye he told me.I was not lining up on center ball. I was lining up on the right side which would cause my right english.

So we worked on straightening everything out so I can have a consistent shot.

Overall I am very happy with my first lesson. I spent about 2.5 hours tonight working on everything. It still feels odd but hopefully overtime it all straightens out.

So once again thank you all for the advice. A lot of you were correct on what you though the issues were, So I appreciate all the advice from the AZ community.

Who was your teacher?
 
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