Types of Taper?

DeaconBlooze said:

I'm confused by some of the names of tapers (I did search, but wasn't really able to find anything satisfactory).

I just got a schon cue with a 12mm tip. It has a pretty constant taper, which is a little disappointing to me.

My favorite shaft is a stock 12.25mm McDermott off of an M-Series cue. It's been my most constant player for about 15 years, so I assume I've just really grown accustom to it's taper. It's very thin throughout most of the shaft, and tapers very late near the joint. Is that a classic taper? A euro taper?

I like the feedback it gives. I'm very interested in getting a performance shaft that would somewhat mimic those characteristics, and have the same taper feel. Are there any certain brands that may be a match for what I've described? I'm interested in getting an 11.75mm shaft.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

It's an extended pro taper.

You mite like the mezz wd700 or a predator ifbuluou can adjust to the feel. I always like md predators shaft feel

having the same taper throughout is a conical taper, starting out nearly straight and then getting thicker quickly at the end is a pro (progressive) taper. Pro tapers vary by side profile.

I had a guy ask me what I considered a pro taper once when selling a cue, if I thought it was better than an amateur one.

If you are interested in a 11.75 shaft with a pro taper then I would recommend Predator Z2 S-Tuned shaft. It's only available through Seybert's. It plays the same as the regular Z2 which has a conical (european) taper. Players cues; Players HXT Skinny is another option. I bought a Mcdermott's 11.75 G-Core shaft but due to it's higher deflection vs Z2 S-Tuned, it just sits in my case.

There are lots of different tapers, the most general ones are Pro (same size for 12-16" then expand. Euro, goes thicker almost from the tip gradually and I think Conical is just about the same as Euro except it goes thicket gradually even closer to the tip. Those are also called "Strong Taper" by people. Exactly when and how fast the shaft changes diameters is where the different cuemakers and player preferences come in. Just like you can have a basic 4 door or a 2 door car but then you have Ford and Chevy use their different ideas as to exaclty how those 4 and 2 door cars would be like in detail.

You can porobaby find a ton of info about this in the cuemakers section.

For weighing a cue, you use a scale, just like you would for weighing anything else. And use calipers to measure various diameters. A postage or food scale works well.

DeaconBlooze said:

I'm confused by some of the names of tapers (I did search, but wasn't really able to find anything satisfactory).

I just got a schon cue with a 12mm tip. It has a pretty constant taper, which is a little disappointing to me.

My favorite shaft is a stock 12.25mm McDermott off of an M-Series cue. It's been my most constant player for about 15 years, so I assume I've just really grown accustom to it's taper. It's very thin throughout most of the shaft, and tapers very late near the joint. Is that a classic taper? A euro taper?

I like the feedback it gives. I'm very interested in getting a performance shaft that would somewhat mimic those characteristics, and have the same taper feel. Are there any certain brands that may be a match for what I've described? I'm interested in getting an 11.75mm shaft.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

That's the whippy taper.
How can it have more " feedback " when it's flexing a lot and not really sending signal down the cue ?
It's also more susceptible to warpage.

A TRUE pro-taper is really a gradual taper ( not constant or straight ) taper up the stroking area. The popular one being about a MM or less to the middle of the shaft.
Nowadays when someone says 12-inch "pro-taper" he means there is NO TAPER for 12 inches. It's a straight barrel.

taper

Buy a Mike Gulyassy ST shaft or have him re taper yours to ST specs. It will be the exact fit for what you are looking for. It will probably also improve your stroke.

blackboarowner said:

Buy a Mike Gulyassy ST shaft or have him re taper yours to ST specs. It will be the exact fit for what you are looking for. It will probably also improve your stroke.

Click to expand...

I'll second, third and fourth that!! I bought a Gulyassy SPTX (30 inches) about 3 years ago, it's still straight as an arrow and is NOT whippy at all. It's all I'll play with now. Great shaft, I won't even let anyone clean it when changing the tip. :smile:

From what I have seen, the cue company that provides the most number of taper options is Schuler. They do not provide the taper formulas, but if you click each shaft, they provide some description of the shape of the shaft and resulting feel. I don't know if their description matches names given to these tapers by other cuemakers.

http://www.schuler-cue.com/shafts.php

Some cuemakers provide only one taper option. Others have their own favorites but will provide custom tapers on request. Some owners will have shafts retapered to increase flex. Shaft taper and thickness contribute enormously to the feel of a cue. Having a great experience with any particular cue does not mean that you will feel the same about other cues from the same maker.

Careyp74 said:

having the same taper throughout is a conical taper, starting out nearly straight and then getting thicker quickly at the end is a pro (progressive) taper. Pro tapers vary by side profile.

I had a guy ask me what I considered a pro taper once when selling a cue, if I thought it was better than an amateur one.

Click to expand...

Actually, Pro taper does mean Professional - as in the taper pros use - which, in fact,
is absence of taper.

So, why should it be confusing?

Dale

DeaconBlooze said:

Thanks for the replies! I had a thought (this rarely happens).

I've played with that same McDermott almost exclusively for the last decade and a half. I'm sure the extended pro taper (thanks for clearing that up) has quite a bit of deflection that I've just naturally adjusted to over the years.

Cut to yesterday when I'm shooting with a 12mm Schon with a much stronger taper, I'm rattling shots and I just don't feel as comfortable. I think that maybe that shaft has less deflection, so may just be throwing me off that little bit.

Now, I wonder if I should just adjust to it, get the Schon shaft retapered, or get a new low deflection shaft with the taper I like and focus on adjusting to that...

Decisions.. I've been reading about low deflection shafts, and it sounds like the adjustment may be more than I anticipated.

Click to expand...

Changing shafts is probably the most dramatic thing you can do in your game with your equipment. It's not even like a shooter swapping to a new gun as no matter what gun you use, it will still shoot straight along where you point it.

With a shaft, as soon as you use spin, you will need to adjust your aiming pint for different shafts.

I've seen Mike Dechaine play with a few of my shafts, he was missing by almost a foot on some spin shots with it, and mine was a medium LD shaft, not even a standard one. A friend of mine uses a stock McDermott shaft and he can't make a ball with spin with any LD shafts without several dries. He just automatically adjusts his aim after playing with the same shaft for so long, he aims well outside of the contact point, 1/2 or more ball away on some shots.

I've read on there that some people say they can swap between shafts with no issues, I don't see how they do that, if they really do. Center ball, not that many issues. But side spin and draw I find that different shafts, and tips, will necessitate a change in where you you aim. Follow not as much though, unless it top left or top right. For some reason, a LD shaft gets more action on draw but I have not seen that much difference in follow shots.

I have an OB1 (pro taper, 12.75mm tip) and an OB2 (conical taper, 11.75 mm tip).

I like them both, and honestly I don't think there's a lot of difference between them. Initially I was nervous about the conical taper of the OB2 because pictures made it look so different from pro taper. In reality the difference is minimal. Same for a 1mm difference in tip diameter.

YMMV.

I have been playing with a Longoni s2 shaft, With an American profile, and loving every minute of it. Here is the link for Longoni taper options....http://www.longonicues.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=345&Itemid=211

If I can just toss a little fuel on the taper confusion fire...:grinning-moose:

pdcue said:

Actually, Pro taper does mean Professional - as in the taper pros use - which, in fact,
is absence of taper.

So, why should it be confusing?

Dale

Click to expand...

Which wasn't what Harvey's original pro-taper was afaik.
I calipered my favorite playing shaft and I was actually shocked by my findings.
6"=+.010"
12"= +.040"
14.5"=+.050"

pdcue said:

Actually, Pro taper does mean Professional - as in the taper pros use - which, in fact,
is absence of taper.

So, why should it be confusing?

Dale

Click to expand...

Well, maybe you are right, it might mean professional, but I have grown up understanding that it was a progressive taper, which would describe starting out with a barely noticeable taper, and increasing the taper rate as you get closer to the joint. Absence of one? Show me a shaft without any taper at all, must be 20mm at the tip.

Careyp74 said:

Well, maybe you are right, it might mean professional, but I have grown up understanding that it was a progressive taper, which would describe starting out with a barely noticeable taper, and increasing the taper rate as you get closer to the joint. Absence of one? Show me a shaft without any taper at all, must be 20mm at the tip.

Click to expand...

It's not no taper all the way to the joint.
12" pro taper would be , say , 13MM from the tip to the 12" mark.
That's how people understand pro taper these days.
Even if it's wrong.
Moochi used to advertise 17" pro-taper. It was straight for 17" from the tip up.