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 Splitting The Difference Aiming System

 (#2) nobcitypool AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 2,865 vCash: 500 iTrader: 40 / 100% Blog Entries: 1 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Noblesville, IN 12-12-2017, 10:25 AM Stan recently produced a YouTube video about the shishkebob system taught by Hal Houle. In the video he showed half to pivots to center versus pivoting from center to 3/4. The same for category 2 and 3. I don't get how this split the difference system works for category 2 and 3. He must be looking at center to edge and edge to edge with some type of offset? How else would it make a 1/4 ball shot with a center to edge? Playing Cue: Jensen with Revo 12.4 Shaft Break Cue: OB Rift Last edited by nobcitypool; 12-12-2017 at 10:27 AM.
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12-12-2017, 10:55 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nobcitypool Stan recently produced a YouTube video about the shishkebob system taught by Hal Houle. In the video he showed half to pivots to center versus pivoting from center to 3/4. The same for category 2 and 3. I don't get how this split the difference system works for category 2 and 3. He must be looking at center to edge and edge to edge with some type of offset? How else would it make a 1/4 ball shot with a center to edge?
He does show edge to edge shots it that's what you're referring to.

I've picked up on some loose ends and discrepancies also. In the beginning of the first video he starts off showing either aiming center to center and then pivoting the tip of the cue to 1/4 ball and then makes the shot. That's OK for the cut angle he has on the table or how he illustrates some of the other cut angles that are more acute. Or he aims a CCB to 1/4 OB with no pivot.

What he doesn't show are the lesser cut angles where a straight center to center hit would strike a rail two inches or more away from a pocket opening. With a pivot from CCB to 1/4 OB it would result in an overcut and hit another rail in front of a pocket.

This is when it has to be measured in cue tip width for a pivot from CCB to just outside of COB to make the shot and prevent an overcut.

 (#4) nobcitypool AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 2,865 vCash: 500 iTrader: 40 / 100% Blog Entries: 1 Join Date: May 2012 Location: Noblesville, IN 12-12-2017, 10:58 AM What I'm asking is what is his solution for a 1/4 ball hit? If you aim center to edge or edge to edge, that doesn't make a 1/4 ball hit. Must be more to what he's doing than I picked up. I watched a little of the second video and he added another shot, center to 1/4 or 3/4. But again, what he explained isn't the same shishkebob system Stan showed in his YouTube video. Playing Cue: Jensen with Revo 12.4 Shaft Break Cue: OB Rift
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12-12-2017, 11:04 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nobcitypool What I'm asking is what is his solution for a 1/4 ball hit? If you aim center to edge or edge to edge, that doesn't make a 1/4 ball hit.
What I gleaned from it was aim center CB to center OB as if it's a straight in shot.
Then pivot the tip of your cue to 1/4 ball on the OB and that's where it will contact after being stroked.

It's in the start of the first video up to about 57 seconds. He goes beyond 57 seconds for a 1/4 ball aim and hit almost up to 5:00 before switching gears.

Last edited by SpiderWebComm; 12-12-2017 at 11:14 AM.

 (#6) paultex AzB Silver Member   Status: Offline Posts: 322 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Dec 2014 12-12-2017, 11:23 AM Ofcourse there is a offset. There's always an offset because any visual method involving edges or contact points lines you up thick from a mechanical standpoint unless you twist out of the shot to make the ball go in the hole. You got to get the hell out of your own way some how to stroke truly down the line and I got no problem with twisting because it puts a different effect on the cb for needed position and is also user friendly for pocketing balls, but both have to be mastered, amongst a bunch of other things, because sometimes shooting down the true line is paramount for certain effects. Stan is 100% right when he said that its inevitable that a player with no instruction, will eventually start offsetting from the side or angling their cue to make balls because that is the nature of dealing with spheres from the human side of things. Stan is the only one ive seen who has addressed the truth that most good players, if not all, sweep into their shots and that is the truth. Stan is a genius for noticing this and then delving deep into it and letting the natural progression through understanding, eventually lead to a efficient visual sweep because in reality, its not a mechanical demand, but a visual criteria that the eyes lead and the body follows. But how much to offset or pivot as Stan said, and that's where the objectivety debate starts because imo, Stan fills that gap with something else in the form of what I call elbow in or out. I would like to see Stan address this very important subject in a video because its a reality that is there and ive yet to see anyone address it in detail. This I believe if done correctly eliminates alot of needed tweaking and I believe Stan when he says there's no tweaking needed or to the extent of most people including myself. I be tweaking dat launch point platform like a mo'fo mang cuz my systems be complex, my style be impetuous, I wanna eat his children, praise be to ALLAH! No, im not muslim or a canibal, just a Mike Tyson quote I found entertaining. Enjoy. Have a nice day ya'll.
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One Pocket John
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12-12-2017, 01:55 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the links Dave. I went a step further and watched all of the pool related videos. Even got to see Jimmy Moore Jr. play.

Because I have been practicing CTE for the last month or so I was able to catch onto this approach pretty easy. I do the pivots in the air. His instruction was to use a manual pivot.

I would have attempted to follow your written instruction thread earlier on this shooting system but I am a visual learner.

Interesting. I'll practice some more using it.

And like all other shooting systems you have to be able to deliver a straight stroke on the shot line which in its self is a completely different topic which would probably be more beneficial to players than trying to learn an aiming/shooting system.

John

One Pocket John
St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

Last edited by One Pocket John; 12-12-2017 at 05:04 PM.

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12-13-2017, 05:54 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by One Pocket John I would have attempted to follow your written instruction thread earlier on this shooting system but I am a visual learner. Interesting. I'll practice some more using it. John
If you're a visual learner, no better way than getting the visuals first hand by doing it on the table yourself.

Here's my suggestion for starters which I did more than a decade ago when Hal first
introduced it over the phone with me on the table.

Confine yourself to this ONE visual until you know it's limitations for shot angle.

Make it a few degrees to start off and keep shooting until you can't miss. Then increase the angle more and more as you go along to identify it's outer limits. When that happens you'll be undercutting the shots.

Aim center to center like you'll be aiming to hit the OB straight into the rail just outside of the pocket. Any pocket. Then pivot to the OUTSIDE so the tip of the cue is aiming at 1/4 spot on the OB. If it's a really minor cut it might even be short of !/4 ball between center and 1/4.

You can start with the two balls about a foot apart and increase the distance to as much as possible with everything else in between.

The accuracy and limitations will be something you'll learn on your own very quickly.

When you start missing short, that's when the original aim from center to center then moves to center to 1/4 where you'll hit it's limitations for cut angle and then have to move to center to edge.

Let me know how it goes.

 (#9) hogie583 AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 62 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Boynton beach 12-13-2017, 06:33 AM In the first video.. it looks like dirty mike is lining up center shaft to 50% and then pivoting over with left edge of shaft to 3/4. To me it looks like he's hitting the cue ball with outside english. Anybody else pick up on that? There has go to be a bit more to this thats not being told. Like for a near straight I'd line up center to center then pivot to half way between cob and the quarter spliting the difference. Same for the his horizon shot center to edge. If i needed more cut from the spot shot id pivot from ob edge so my shaft edge is now aim at ob edge instead of center shaft. Same for edge to edge with this system. Gotta be more to it. Anyone have more info? Seem to me like its a combination of shaft aiming and fractional with a touch of outside on some (most)shots.... I have not tried this yet... my 9 footers just got superspeed rails reglued and new cloth. I ll try this tomorrow...
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12-13-2017, 06:51 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by hogie583 In the first video.. it looks like dirty mike is lining up center shaft to 50% and then pivoting over with left edge of shaft to 3/4. To me it looks like he's hitting the cue ball with outside english. Anybody else pick up on that? There has go to be a bit more to this thats not being told. Like for a near straight I'd line up center to center then pivot to half way between cob and the quarter spliting the difference. For a near straight with only a few degrees of angle, if you pivoted fully to halfway between center and edge (1/4 ball) you would overcut the shot. that's when you might be better off measuring the pivot by "slivers of tip width" to outside. In scientific terms this is known as a "smidge" or c*** hair." Same for the his horizon shot center to edge. If i needed more cut from the spot shot id pivot from ob edge so my shaft edge is now aim at ob edge instead of center shaft. Same for edge to edge with this system. Gotta be more to it. Anyone have more info? Seem to me like its a combination of shaft aiming and fractional with a touch of outside on some (most)shots.... I have not tried this yet... my 9 footers just got superspeed rails reglued and new cloth. I ll try this tomorrow...
Yes, when pivoting from CCB to OUTSIDE, it does have spin as well as possible throw.

It's Hal's 3 line aiming system that blew the minds of all the scientists and know-it-alls on RSB who said it was impossible and started this entire mess for 20 years.

The 3 line aiming system is the basis for CTE, Hal's version and Stan's A, B, C.
This guy didn't invent it. He either stumbled on it by accident or read it in the forums over 20 years and is taking the credit as the inventor.

Try it. It works. Just do it as I described to OnePocketJohn. Hal figured it out 70 years ago and Stan has taken it to ultimate levels.

Hal always told me from the very beginning that CTE was the stronger than this and he's right.

Last edited by SpiderWebComm; 12-13-2017 at 07:37 AM.

 (#11) Vorpal Cue Just galumping back     Status: Offline Posts: 336 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Tulgy Woods 12-13-2017, 09:52 AM The shish-kabob system you introduced earlier this year is better. It allows the option of a center ball strike or outside english depending on the initial line up. In the navy we called those tiny adjustments RCHs. (red curly hairs) My Vorpal cue jabbed 'er wonky and the shot went snicker-snack. 'Twas brillig.
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12-13-2017, 10:28 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Vorpal Cue The shish-kabob system you introduced earlier this year is better. It allows the option of a center ball strike or outside english depending on the initial line up. In the navy we called those tiny adjustments RCHs. (red curly hairs)
Damn it. I missed out by not considering going to Annapolis. I was terrified about the possibility of getting stuck in a submarine for months and months at a time with claustrophobia.

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One Pocket John
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12-13-2017, 05:49 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by SpiderWebComm If you're a visual learner, no better way than getting the visuals first hand by doing it on the table yourself. Here's my suggestion for starters which I did more than a decade ago when Hal first introduced it over the phone with me on the table. Confine yourself to this ONE visual until you know it's limitations for shot angle. Make it a few degrees to start off and keep shooting until you can't miss. Then increase the angle more and more as you go along to identify it's outer limits. When that happens you'll be undercutting the shots. Aim center to center like you'll be aiming to hit the OB straight into the rail just outside of the pocket. Any pocket. Then pivot to the OUTSIDE so the tip of the cue is aiming at 1/4 spot on the OB. If it's a really minor cut it might even be short of !/4 ball between center and 1/4. You can start with the two balls about a foot apart and increase the distance to as much as possible with everything else in between. The accuracy and limitations will be something you'll learn on your own very quickly. When you start missing short, that's when the original aim from center to center then moves to center to 1/4 where you'll hit it's limitations for cut angle and then have to move to center to edge. Let me know how it goes.
Consider the above DONE.

Good information, nothing like knowing the limitations. I'll work on the above asap.

Thanks for the tip.

John

One Pocket John
St. Louis, MO.

I don't play One Pocket as much as I use to, but when I do, I play at Cue & Cushion - Overland, MO.

In Memory of Dean Higgs and Harry Sims - gone but not forgotten and thank you.

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12-14-2017, 04:52 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by One Pocket John Consider the above DONE. Good information, nothing like knowing the limitations. I'll work on the above asap. Thanks for the tip. John
For anybody else interested in getting on the table to experiment with initial low angle shots from a couple of degrees up to (you put in the angle # from your own discoveries), and you still don't quite understand how this works, here's the visual you should be seeing.

You'll be aiming center of the cue ball to the center of the OB with your cue like a laser to strike the shot to MISS the pocket. Unlike contact points, fractions, overlaps, GB. where you step in immediately to the correct impact spot to make the shot, you aim wherever a straight alignment takes you. A center to center alignment could have the OB missing the pocket anywhere from 1" to 1' or more. You have to get used to it. I can't emphasize the importance of this paragraph and description enough.

Then make your pivot with the cue to the outside so the tip points to the 1/4 spot on the OB. (1/2 way between center and edge). For very minor cuts of only a couple degrees, the pivot might be less which ends up between the center of the CB to the 1/4 spot on the OB.

If you can't get the initial low angle shots along with the visuals, you ain't gonna get the rest of it and will end up saying the entire system is garbage. It's NOT.

Last edited by SpiderWebComm; 12-14-2017 at 05:28 AM.

 (#15) Low500 AzB Silver Member     Status: Offline Posts: 1,566 vCash: 500 iTrader: 0 / 0% Join Date: Apr 2017 12-14-2017, 05:46 AM ---------------------- Last edited by Low500; 05-02-2019 at 12:38 PM.
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