Go Back   AzBilliards.com > Main Category > Main Forum
Reload this Page another deflection thread
Reply
Page 6 of 6 « First 456
 
Share Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old
  (#76)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,240
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
09-21-2019, 03:36 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootingArts View Post
pj,

I didn't want to lead you but you didn't even come close to answering my question. To put it another way, to get the same effect with the low deflection cue as with the high deflection cue, you have to place both your bridge and grip hand on a different line than that used with a high deflection cue. Yes or no?

Hu
Yes, of course, since the cue (except for the tip) must be on a different line.

pj <- assuming you’re stroking straight (not swooping)
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 09-21-2019 at 03:40 AM.
  
Reply With Quote

Old
  (#77)
Hits 'em Hard
AzB Silver Member
Hits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond reputeHits 'em Hard has a reputation beyond repute
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 1,223
vCash: 500
iTrader: 8 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Grand Junction, Co
   
09-21-2019, 06:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
P.S. I think this also illustrates how the miscue limit and maximum spin amount are the same for all cues, and why swoop strokes are useless.

pj <- but that's another thread (or two)
chgo
Swoop strokes work but are useless, but not for that reason. Think of swing planes in golf. Coming across the ball adds the side spin to make it hook/slice. The distance a golf ball goes allows for that side spin to have an effect. The cue ball doesnít have room to get that extra spin to matter. It just is such a specialized effect that it should be useless for 99.999999% of shots.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#78)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,240
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
09-21-2019, 07:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hits 'em Hard View Post
Coming across the ball adds the side spin
Not more than you can get with a straight stroke.

If you hit the CB on the same spot, but the force direction through the CB is different, then you miss the shot. But if the force direction is the same, then you don't get any more spin. So it's impossible to increase spin with a swoop stroke and still make the shot. (In the illustration it's impossible to create more spin at all because the tips are all already hitting at the miscue limit.)

Swooping doesn't do anything but make it harder to hit the correct spot at the correct angle.

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 09-21-2019 at 07:35 AM.
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#79)
dr_dave
Instructional Author
dr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond reputedr_dave has a reputation beyond repute
 
dr_dave's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 9,919
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
   
09-21-2019, 07:39 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Swooping doesn't do anything but make it harder to hit the correct spot at the correct angle.
I am not a fan of swooping, but it can offer advantages to some people, as listed on the swoop/swipe stroke resource page. Here they are:

1. A swoop stroke allows one to aim and hit closer to the center of the CB, to apply sidespin. This effect doesnít allow one to put more spin on the CB than is possible with a straight stroke, nor does it change the effective miscue limit (or the maximum amount of spin possible), but it does allow one to hit the CB with less ďapparentĒ tip offset.

2. The sideways swiping motion (especially if it is fast in comparison to the forward speed of the cue) helps provide slightly more squirt (cue ball deflection) aim compensation than is provided by a pre-stroke BHE pivot. And if one uses a non-LD-shaft (especially with a long bridge length), this slightly extra squirt compensation might be helpful (assuming they havenít already adjusted their aim and alignment to intuitively compensate for squirt, swerve, and throw, as most pros and top players do).

3. A swoop stroke can allow the cue to be aligned closer to the direction one wants the CB to head (assuming the aim compensation provide by the swooping motion is appropriate for the amount of squirt, swerve, and throw anticipated for the given shot). This could make it easier for some people to visualize the line of the shot and oneís aim and cue alignment. Without a swoop, to compensate for squirt, the cue alignment at address would be off center and in general not in-line with the desired direction of CB motion. Most top players can aim and align the cue in this fashion intuitively, and it is comfortable. However, some people find the off-center and off-line pre-stroke cue alignment to be disconcerting.

4. A swoop stroke allows one to apply BHE squirt correction during the stroke instead of before the stroke. BHE before the stroke can be awkward, uncomfortable and unnatural to some people. Some, while aiming and aligning a shot, donít like seeing the cue pointing in a different direction than they want the CB to head. Also, some people donít like to change their stance (which can occur with a pre-stroke BHE pivot) and cue alignment after being down on a shot.

Regards,
Dave
  
Reply With Quote
Old
  (#80)
Patrick Johnson
Fish of the Day
Patrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond reputePatrick Johnson has a reputation beyond repute
 
Patrick Johnson's Avatar
 
Status: Offline
Posts: 20,240
vCash: 1700
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Join Date: Jun 2007
   
09-21-2019, 07:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_dave View Post
1. A swoop stroke ... doesn’t allow one to put more spin on the CB than is possible with a straight stroke, nor does it change the effective miscue limit (or the maximum amount of spin possible)
The other points you make are true, of course (although not advantages for me), but I want to highlight your first statement about it because this is what most swoopers (wrongly) think it does for them.

pj
chgo
  
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 6 of 6 « First 456

Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.