Will 9 ball be a dead game in 5 years?

NYC cue dude said:

One can only hope.

14.1 is the real game

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Amen to that! :thumbup:

Never did like 9 ball all that much.

9 ball is the worst game, and the popular opinion means nothing.

Texas express rules were made for TV. It wasn't to make a "better" game, one that really put player skill to the better test. It was made to fit the attention span of idiots who don't have the patients to learn the first two things about pool. So now more people who don't understand the intricacy of billiards watch 9 ball. But any real player, anyone who can appreciate the infinitesimally high skill cap of this game, and who wants to really be able to see the difference between two players near the limit, will want to play and watch a real game. Such as straight pool, one pocket or countless others. But not 9 ball, it is a joke.

Professionals will always play where the money is. And other games probably wont catch to 9 ball now that its become the "popular" thing. But even if it yields more money, a 9 ball champion title means squat compared to a one pocket, straight pool, or even eight ball title, in terms of showing who is the best at pool.

MiscueBlues said:

Texas express rules were made for TV.

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To some extent, yes, but also because the older version of nine ball was unwatchable and would, consequently, be just as unwatchable on TV.

As bonus ball has shown, no matter how high the skill level entailed by any pool game, if people are not inclined to watch it, failure is around the corner.

Texas Express nine ball had a significant presence on TV for over 20 years.

The old version of nine ball, which I played a bit in my youth, didn't last for long. Arguably, the nine ball area began in 1979, and by about 1983, the old rules were scrapped because the game was unwatchable.

Neil said:

O.K., I'll give you that part. A tight racks gives you the wing ball and head ball. Always has. Nothing actually new there unless you count the fact that you get an actually tight rack every rack.

My question to you then, since that makes 9 ball broken, and so easy, how many of those guys in your room are running out sets?? If the game is all about the break, and they can reliably make a ball or two on the break, what is holding them back?

So, since not many if any are consistently running sets, then one would have to logically come to the conclusion that while the break is an important shot, it is not the most important, nor is it broken.

My point is, 9 ball is not broken, nothing the matter with making the wing ball or the head ball. That has always happened. I believe it's just a matter of two things- 1. People keep saying it's broken, and if you hear something enough times, people tend to believe it without giving it any real thought. And 2. People feel that since the break is supposedly so easy to make a ball, then to not conflict with the statement that the break "breaks" 9 ball, they should run out all the time. But, in reality, they can't. To cover that little fact, they then want a harder game to run out in. Hence, going to 10 ball.

First thing I always ask someone face to face that tells me 9 ball is broken is this- "When was the last time you ran a 6 pack playing 9 ball?". Not surprising, most of them say "never". Well, it's not really broken then, is it??

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Agree 100%....

I think it's not unfathomable that pool's most popular game will shift in the coming years. I think 5 years is a little too short. 9-ball is so popular at the amateur level (both gambling & organized play) that the shift will seem far more obvious than 10-ball's movement shows.

The fundamental problem here is a bit more complex than just 9-ball's break or rules or anything. The problem is, pool is played one rack at a time by the masses. It begins with the break and ends when the 8, 9, 10, last ball (depending on the game) drops. Because of this, because we're confined to this single rack, there is always going to be an upper-echelon of players capable of winning the game in a single turn. We can do things to accommodate for this but the counter-result will have games taking an inordinate amount of time to complete. People like the break-and-runs on every level. The question is, how to maintain fairness in the face of this.

In my opinion, the break-format is key. Pool should look to other games such as basketball, football or tennis for ideas on how to implement this. For the record, although I'm not the most active competitor, I've played in my share of "major events" and have never had my opponent completely break-and-run the entire set on me (nor have I done it myself). This includes all amateur barbox events, a couple trips to Turning Stone, the World Summit of Pool & a plethora of Joss events. Not one time. With that said, I think if we put our minds to it, we can come-up with a break structure that would be easy to follow and arguably fair. Discussing the prospect of changing games, especially in a non-organic manner is fruitless. It's just not gonna happen. If it does happen, it'll be an unstoppable freight train where everyone hops on board because it's more fun.

Jude Rosenstock said:

I think it's not unfathomable that pool's most popular game will shift in the coming years. I think 5 years is a little too short. 9-ball is so popular at the amateur level (both gambling & organized play) that the shift will seem far more obvious than 10-ball's movement shows.

The fundamental problem here is a bit more complex than just 9-ball's break or rules or anything. The problem is, pool is played one rack at a time by the masses. It begins with the break and ends when the 8, 9, 10, last ball (depending on the game) drops. Because of this, because we're confined to this single rack, there is always going to be an upper-echelon of players capable of winning the game in a single turn. We can do things to accommodate for this but the counter-result will have games taking an inordinate amount of time to complete. People like the break-and-runs on every level. The question is, how to maintain fairness in the face of this.

In my opinion, the break-format is key. Pool should look to other games such as basketball, football or tennis for ideas on how to implement this. For the record, although I'm not the most active competitor, I've played in my share of "major events" and have never had my opponent completely break-and-run the entire set on me (nor have I done it myself). This includes all amateur barbox events, a couple trips to Turning Stone, the World Summit of Pool & a plethora of Joss events. Not one time. With that said, I think if we put our minds to it, we can come-up with a break structure that would be easy to follow and arguably fair. Discussing the prospect of changing games, especially in a non-organic manner is fruitless. It's just not gonna happen. If it does happen, it'll be an unstoppable freight train where everyone hops on board because it's more fun.

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That's a lotta words, but I interpret it to mean we should all play bonus ball.

Black-Balled said:

That's a lotta words, but I interpret it to mean we should all play bonus ball.

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Although I know you meant it as a joke, bonus ball was never ever going to work. Although each game has tons of rules, you can summarize the concept of the best games in a single sentence. You can't do that with bonus ball. Pool is already a really hard game for most people. You can't make the rules hard too.

'Two Shot Shoot Out' 9 Ball is the best pocket billiard game

Straightpool_99 said:

I recently had a discussion about the future of 9 ball as a competitive game. My argument was that since the break in 9 ball has been figured out to such a degree that even moving the 9 ball to the spot does not stop the soft break, and the huge luck factor involved in the game as a whole, the game has no future as a competitive sport. I believe that in 5 years it will be replaced by 10 ball almost completely as far as major tournaments go. My friend disagreed. He pointed out that because of the history and the gambling factor, there will always be an interest in major tournaments of 9 ball.

What do you guys think?

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'Two Shot Shoot Out' 9 Ball is the best pocket billiard game ever invented that's what many people think!

"One Foul" is a watered down version of 'Two Shot Shoot Out' and has taken the key elements that once made 9 Ball GREAT - such as the "two way shot," the "roll out battle," "the spot shot," the strategic sparring, the incredible shot making, banking safe, and long shots off the end rail coming up time and time again to win games.

These are some of the key things that have been REMOVED from 9 Ball....that's why it's reported to be "dying" because promoters took out it's vital parts and left it as a "pool zombie". click picture for more

Straightpool_99 said:

I recently had a discussion about the future of 9 ball as a competitive game. My argument was that since the break in 9 ball has been figured out to such a degree that even moving the 9 ball to the spot does not stop the soft break, and the huge luck factor involved in the game as a whole, the game has no future as a competitive sport. I believe that in 5 years it will be replaced by 10 ball almost completely as far as major tournaments go. My friend disagreed. He pointed out that because of the history and the gambling factor, there will always be an interest in major tournaments of 9 ball.

What do you guys think?

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Yes ... 9 ball is totally dead........ bonus ball will replace it.................



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Kim

Straightpool_99 said:

I never could understand how the luckiest, least strategic and most unfair game of all pool games should determine which player is the best in the world. Any one of the major pool games would be better to determine this, even 8 ball, which still is not well suited to the purpose. A straightpool round robin would be the ultimate decider for me, but as long as its not widely played outside of Europe and parts of the US it would be unfair.

It's easy to observe something happening in ones community and generalize it to the rest of the world. I have observed that good players here have embraced 10 ball, but apparently it's not a global phenomenon like I thought. Like with politics it's hard to get into the mindset of people whose opinion is so different from your own. Like my friends who are into poker, studying statistics and body language only to be beaten by dumb luck, and still declare that it is the greatest game in the world. I guess I will have to accept that people want luck to play a large part of the game of pool. While I personally don't like it I can't say its wrong per se.

What is wrong is making the game even more boring to the casual observer by making softbreaking and pattern racking a part of it. That I feel, might be the ultimate nail in the pool coffin.

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Yeah, I can't say I'm on the same page with you but much of what you said is your opinion which you're completely entitled to. However, I do agree that soft-breaking and pattern racking are horrible for pool. To the casual observer, it's the only athletic thing we do! We have to show them something.

Straightpool_99 said:

I never could understand how the luckiest, least strategic and most unfair game of all pool games should determine which player is the best in the world. Any one of the major pool games would be better to determine this, even 8 ball. A straightpool round robin would be the ultimate decider for me, but as long as its not widely played outside of Europe and parts of the US it would be unfair.<--and rightly so, that's why 14.1, died during the Roosevelt administration !

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SP_99, You were rocking along, until your last sentence ! No one (except you apparently)..could even sit through a long, 14.1 round robin, without committing suicide ! ..ANY discipline would be better suited, to finding the all around best player...Even (ugh) 9 ball would be better, (for staying awake)..and its a horrible yardstick !

This leaves 8 ball, or one pocket...Hmm...!

Lets talk break.......unlike in 1 pocket where, after 8 points, there is re-racking of all 15 balls and the CB is placed in the kitchen to break again,in straight pool after 14 balls are pocketed, there is the last 15th ball, called the break ball.

So the object now is to make that ball in a called pocket and open the rack, if possible. Sounds easy huh......it aint. Where the CB goes into the rack is very important. Where that break ball is controls where the cb goes into the rack, so there are times you have to nudge a ball into the right position. This is not needed to be done in 1 pocket since after just 8 points, all the balls are re-racked.

Now, there is also a carom break......this is caroming the break ball off a wing ball into the called pocket. Kinda cool to do, surprises a few people when I do this.

Straight pool is a true shooters game unlike 1 pocket. A straight pool player that is strong in banks, combos and caroms will have the skill set needed to play any pool game well. Even 1 pocket......

1 pocket is for those that can't run more that a few balls at a time and if they don't have the confidence to make shot, sends balls up table or plays a safe but only has to consider 1 pocket and not 6 pockets when playing that safe.

Its boring as hell to boot........And yes I have played it, and last time I did, the 1 pocket player that talked me into and was gonna help me "learn the shot" didn't say much when he left me a bank and I ran 5 balls into my pocket before he had any. His next turn at the time, guess what, he starting sending the balls up table.......so the waiting game was on.....and yep I keep him at zero for quite a bit until I just bored silly move balls around up at the head of the table.....I shoot pool, not move balls around which is why I like straight pool.....

Talk up 1 pocket all you want, but those that play straight pool know it is nothing more than a kids game really,(they won't admit it of course).

I think any of the US Open 9ball champions would disagree with you. Elite players can play any game. Shane cut his teeth on 8ball, but he has mastered (won titles) the other games too. I expect he'll win a 14.1 event too, at some point.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

MiscueBlues said:

. But even if it yields more money, a 9 ball champion title means squat compared to a one pocket, straight pool, or even eight ball title, in terms of showing who is the best at pool.

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I beg to differ. The US Opens in the 60's and 70's weren't round robin, but were very well attended, by very knowledgeable fans. Just because you hate straight pool doesn't mean that it isn't a great game...which it is.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

SJDinPHX said:

No one (except you apparently)..could even sit through a long, 14.1 round robin, without committing suicide !

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Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland and many other players practice straight pool, but....

Straightpool_99 said:

I never could understand how the luckiest, least strategic and most unfair game of all pool games should determine which player is the best in the world. Any one of the major pool games would be better to determine this, even 8 ball, which still is not well suited to the purpose. A straightpool round robin would be the ultimate decider for me, but as long as its not widely played outside of Europe and parts of the US it would be unfair.

It's easy to observe something happening in ones community and generalize it to the rest of the world. I have observed that good players here have embraced 10 ball, but apparently it's not a global phenomenon like I thought. Like with politics it's hard to get into the mindset of people whose opinion is so different from your own. Like my friends who are into poker, studying statistics and body language only to be beaten by dumb luck, and still declare that it is the greatest game in the world. I guess I will have to accept that people want luck to play a large part of the game of pool. While I personally don't like it I can't say its wrong per se.

What is wrong is making the game even more boring to the casual observer by making softbreaking and pattern racking a part of it. That I feel, might be the ultimate nail in the pool coffin.

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Straight pool is a great game to practice, and not that enjoyable for competition. Running 100 - 150 balls in not difficult for seasoned professional players on new cloth (tournament conditions).

Johnny Archer, Earl Strickland and many other players practice straight pool for competition in 9 Ball, but they don't particularly like straight pool tournaments because one player will spend a lot of the match in their chair.

Two Shot Shoot Out 9 Ball is the best competitive game, with "call shot" and the 9 Ball doesn't count on the break.......I even like the mandatory roll out to start the game after the break so the break isn't such a huge factor. That would be the best test of skill. imo

Bob Dixon said:

14.1, especially, is glorified by people who play it simply because that is what they play. I think it's funny how they always seem to be trying to convince everyone that playing 14.1 makes them the best players in the world.

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You can say the very same thing about those who play almost nothing but 9 ball, 8 ball, whatever.

Bob Dixon said:

No, not at all. You don't see players presenting themselves as master pool players just because they play 8-ball, 9-ball, or 10-ball and disparaging straight pool players as inexperienced and unaccomplished. That's what you see straight pool players doing. Every time the subject comes up.

And they get upset when someone tells them they aren't the masters of the world that they like to think of themselves as. They really have deluded themselves that they are some kind of pool aristocracy.

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I like straight pool. Running a hundred balls would be harder than several racks of nine, I think. Your right though, straight pool players do get uppity. Little bit little bit.