Byrne's Standard Book (1978) -- deflection

Bob Jewett

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... I recently took one of my son's friends to the pool room that I frequent, and saw that he could benefit from learning some basics about English. I told him that I would find Byrne's book on my shelves and loan it to him. When I pulled it off the shelf, I decided to re-read what he had written about English. I was intrigued to discover that he had emphasized gear effect and curve, and had barely addressed deflection (which he calls "squirt"). ...
I must say that I felt a little better about my long-standing ignorance regarding deflection, and the magnitude of its effect as compared to the effect of curve. Byrne's Standard Book didn't really give it enough emphasis, I don't think. Or am I missing something? ...
I don't think you are missing anything. I think that like most players of the time, Byrne learned to compensate for squirt subconsciously as he was learning to use side spin. Since he did not think about squirt while shooting, it was not important to him.

At the time he wrote SBoP&B I think there was no mention of squirt in any book in print. There is a brief warning in Hoppe's "Billiards As It Should Be Played" (1941) against "spineless" cues without any real explanation of what the result might be if a cue was not sufficiently spineful.

Some pool authors who were probably unaware of squirt are Mosconi, Caras, Knuchell, Cottingham, Lassiter, and Martin. Either they were subconscious compensators or they deliberately left out a phenomenon that will cause most shots with side spin to miss if not taken into account. (Or their ghost authors were poorly informed.)

Interestingly, the first major book in English about billiards/pool -- Edwin Kentfield's "The Game of Billiards" (1839) -- has diagrams showing both squirt and swerve and even has a diagram showing back-hand english (BHE) or aim-and-pivot although the text is not perfectly clear about the technique. A French book from somewhat later (1890?) says explicitly to aim shots without side spin and then pivot around the bridge hand to get the required "effet" which is BHE. In his defense, neither of those books was in Byrne's library.

As for the term "squirt", it seems to have been coined by Jack Leavitt who was an A player in Northern California in the 1970s. I relayed the word to Byrne while he was writing SBoP&B. Coincidentally, Jack sold me a cue at a tournament which I had somehow arrived at without my own cue. It had an unusable amount of squirt. It was a good lesson for me.

As for the physics behind squirt, it seems that was not generally understood until high-speed video was shot of tips on balls, first by Meucci and then by Predator (and the Jacksonville Experiment group). It then became clear that simple conservation of momentum required squirt to exist and that mass reduction would reduce squirt. See Ron Shepard's paper for more info.

There are still lots of people who think squirt doesn't exist and many who will admit that it does exist but is not important to play. On the other hand, Eddie Robin has said that he can deal with any variable in a cue stick (weight, length, tip size) except squirt. For him it is the most important characteristic of a cue. For me, too.
 

poolmouse

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To be clear, my original post wasn't a complaint about squirt, a request for info on ways to reduce or eliminate it, or an effort to start another debate about the effectiveness/pros-cons of LD shafts. Just an observation about Byrne's Standard Book!

My apologies, I didn't meant to veer off on a tangent. I was really just shining a light on the significance of the stuff covered in Robert Byrne's book. When I first read it I didn't think much of the phenomenon. But once I switched shafts, I saw how invaluable the information really was.
 

Seth C.

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My apologies, I didn't meant to veer off on a tangent. I was really just shining a light on the significance of the stuff covered in Robert Byrne's book. When I first read it I didn't think much of the phenomenon. But once I switched shafts, I saw how invaluable the information really was.

No apology necessary! All of this discussion is good stuff. Best New Years wishes to all.
 

Danimal

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There are still lots of people who think squirt doesn't exist and many who will admit that it does exist but is not important to play. On the other hand, Eddie Robin has said that he can deal with any variable in a cue stick (weight, length, tip size) except squirt. For him it is the most important characteristic of a cue. For me, too.

I spoke with U.S. Open champ Kevin Cheng in the days following his victory as to why the Taiwanese favor high-deflection maple shafts. Kevin is one of the only ones fluent in english who could provide insight into their preferences. An informal transcript:

D: Why do you guys all like Southwest cues?
KC: Don't know, that's what Yang (Ching Shun) used.

D: What is so good about them?
KC: Can't explain, they are just "powerful" cues.

D: What size tip do you like? Why?
KC: Everyone uses 13mm, because that is what Yang used. Hsu Kai-Lun (2015 US Open participant) uses a "smaller" one, about 12.8mm. He's the only one that likes it so small.

D: What tips do you use?
KC: Everyone in Taiwan uses soft tips. Either Kamui soft or homemade soft tips. Hard shafts with soft tips.

D: What was your previous cue?
KC: When I was an amateur, I had a Falcon butt with a Predator shaft. I stopped playing with Predator when I got my SW.

D: How did you transition from a Predator to a stiff maple shaft? Wasn't it difficult?
KC: A little at first. But I played with the SW every day for two months. Then it was fine.

D: Is it true that coaches over there prohibit young players from using Predators? Why?
KC: I never had a coach, I just learned by myself. But, yeah, nobody really uses them. We like cues that have more "power."

D: if you didn't play with a SW what would you like to use?
KC: A Tad, they also have good power. Or maybe I would switch if I could get a sponsor.

D: I don't think you should switch. You play pretty good with your cue.
KC: I guess you're right (laughs). After winning the tournament, someone offered to buy it for $6,000, but I said no. I'll keep it for now.

Ed.-These guys don't seem too concerned re: squirt. They just play with what they like, and do pretty well with it. To each his own...
 

Bob Jewett

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... Ed.-These guys don't seem too concerned re: squirt. ...
There's a reasonable argument that for some players it's better for them not to be consciously aware of a lot of aspects of play.
 

poolmouse

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There's a reasonable argument that for some players it's better for them not to be consciously aware of a lot of aspects of play.

Some people think too much at the table and it slows them down.
 
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SilverCue

Sir Raksalot
Silver Member
Deflection is a marketing term made up by Moooochie.

What you are describing is known as "squirt"

An off center hit does push the CB off line in the opposite direction.

The CB still curves back - though not as much on Simonis as on a napped cloth.

Right English still throws the OB to the left.

If you don't know exactly where to hit the OB, you have a bigger issue than
not understanding Mr. Byrne


Dale(aim is the teacher)

WOW,

I thought all the A-Hole critics were on the main forum.
 
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