Low deflection haters

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Poolplayer2016

Banned
First of all...all cues have deflection...so if you don't have a low deflection cue then you have a high deflection cue or something in between. IMO cues/shafts should be sold with a deflection rating...otherwise if you aren't buying a LD shaft then you have no benchmark to go by, especially buying online.
 
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Walt69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Poolplayer2016 said:
First of all...all cues have deflection...so if you don't have a low deflection cue then you have a high deflection cue or something in between. IMO cues/shafts should be sold with a deflection rating...otherwise if you aren't buying a LD shaft then you have no benchmark to go by, especially buying online.
Click to expand...

I was a LD guy for a long time and only recently started using standard maple again. Proper taper, ferrule, and tip diameter go a long way towards lowering deflection; however i've found it much easier to "bend" the cue ball on slightly obstructed shots using a shaft with slightly more deflection, resulting in more pots actually. I don't typically use much side english on longer shots if i can avoid it, so the pros of LD didn't outweigh the pros of actually having deflection for me personally.

Once you start planning more and more shots ahead and learning the natural cue ball paths off the object ball, you can adjust draw or follow "as opposed to left or right english" to put you in a good position for the next shot most of the time "excluding clusters, rail huggers, etc..."
 
Bill-The-Kidd

Bill-The-Kidd

Registered
I personally use a PH shaft on my Denali cue.:eek: I hit some shots with a friends OB and predator and I don't buy the hype. On the other hand a player with a inconsistent stroke or bad fundamentals would benefit on miss hits.:idea2:
 
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Poolplayer2016

Banned
Walt69 said:
I was a LD guy for a long time and only recently started using standard maple again. Proper taper, ferrule, and tip diameter go a long way towards lowering deflection; however i've found it much easier to "bend" the cue ball on slightly obstructed shots using a shaft with slightly more deflection, resulting in more pots actually. I don't typically use much side english on longer shots if i can avoid it, so the pros of LD didn't outweigh the pros of actually having deflection for me personally.
Click to expand...

Bill-The-Kidd said:
I personally use a PH shaft on my Denali cue.:eek: I hit some shots with a friends OB and predator and I don't buy the hype. On the other hand a player with a inconsistent stroke or bad fundamentals would benefit on miss hits.:idea2:
Click to expand...

That's my point...its not hype...its just giving deflection a number basically. Like in golf...a 2 iron....9 iron etc...if I have a ball I want to bend around then I can use my higher deflection #'d cue...but I would probably just elevate and masse it a bit...np. I mean we have the weight of all cues...the length...the tip diameters...shaft tapers...why not measure deflection on all cues too?
 
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dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
Poolplayer2016 said:
First of all...all cues have deflection...so if you don't have a low deflection cue then you have a high deflection cue or something in between. IMO cues/shafts should be sold with a deflection rating...otherwise if you aren't buying a LD shaft then you have no benchmark to go by, especially buying online.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%. Shafts should come with performance specifications: weight, tip hardness, natural pivot length (related to squirt or CB deflection), hit characteristics (efficiency, stiffness, natural frequency). FYI, some squirt data for a wide collection of cues/shafts is available on the published squirt data resource page. And a simple procedure that can be used to measure squirt (CB deflection) and the natural pivot point can be found on the natural pivot length resource page.

I also agree that there are far too many LD shaft haters out there. Lower CB deflection (squirt) offers several meaningful advantages to players.

I think any non LD shaft should be called an HD (high CB deflection/squirt) shaft, because they produce more CB deflection than is necessary or desired by most people (in the modern playing era, anyway).

Regards,
Dave
 
R

RADAR

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Walt69 said:
I was a LD guy for a long time and only recently started using standard maple again. Proper taper, ferrule, and tip diameter go a long way towards lowering deflection; however i've found it much easier to "bend" the cue ball on slightly obstructed shots using a shaft with slightly more deflection, resulting in more pots actually. I don't typically use much side english on longer shots if i can avoid it, so the pros of LD didn't outweigh the pros of actually having deflection for me personally.

Once you start planning more and more shots ahead and learning the natural cue ball paths off the object ball, you can adjust draw or follow "as opposed to left or right english" to put you in a good position for the next shot most of the time "excluding clusters, rail huggers, etc..."
Click to expand...

bingo sir why i have said for many years deflection is to your advantage to certain shots playing position, again there is a middle there having a shaft with lower ld properties which is good but not all of the deflection at the highest level as big names cues out there. i think bert kinister even teaches you that deflection is to your benefit in pool! i have notice more & more players leaning away from the high ld properties of shafts in past few years. also1 loses have the feel in ld shafts. not all some pros sponsored by cues with high ld properties for coins or involved pushing product. money does talk! :wink:
 
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MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
I agree 100%. Shafts should come with performance specifications: weight, tip hardness,
Click to expand...

So a writeup of a cue should be 4 pages long like a car-and-driver road test of a car?
With a table of measured parameters at the end for comparative purposes?
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
MitchAlsup said:
dr_dave said:
I agree 100%. Shafts should come with performance specifications: weight, tip hardness, natural pivot length (related to squirt or CB deflection), hit characteristics (efficiency, stiffness, natural frequency). FYI, some squirt data for a wide collection of cues/shafts is available on the published squirt data resource page. And a simple procedure that can be used to measure squirt (CB deflection) and the natural pivot point can be found on the natural pivot length resource page.
Click to expand...
So a writeup of a cue should be 4 pages long like a car-and-driver road test of a car?
With a table of measured parameters at the end for comparative purposes?
Click to expand...
... not 4 pages of complicated data ... just 4-6 useful and standard numbers ... that's it.

Regards,
Dave
 
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Poolplayer2016

Banned
RADAR said:
bingo sir why i have said for many years deflection is to your advantage to certain shots playing position, again there is a middle there having a shaft with lower ld properties which is good but not all of the deflection at the highest level as big names cues out there. i think bert kinister even teaches you that deflection is to your benefit in pool! i have notice more & more players leaning away from the high ld properties of shafts in past few years. also1 loses have the feel in ld shafts. not all some pros sponsored by cues with high ld properties for coins or involved pushing product. money does talk! :wink:
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I went to Berts site...which said Niels was his best student...found that Neils is using a longoni S2 laminated shaft which is low deflection...

http://www.longonicues.com/4-longon...i-pool-cue-t12-leather-strips-by-niels-feijen

http://www.estevematashop.com/en/pr...oni-s2-29-516x14-american-pool-shaft/2662/227
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"published squirt data". How many places can you use that in a sentence? Pool cue reviews, adult film reviews, any others?
 
KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
In reality, there should be no haters. I've never met a LD user that "hated" regular maple shafts. They just prefer LD, they don't HATE non LD shafts.

I personally shoot at least a ball or more worse using a non LD shaft, but that's just me. I don't hate non LD shafts personally. They just don't work as well for me, and that's OK. I really "dislike" using inside English with non LD shafts, and that was enough for me to make the change. I was not thrilled with running English if loaded up either. Seems like I just rattled a lot of pockets when using English with non LD shafts, and it kinda sucked when it was the "key" ball trying to get to the 8, 9 or 10 :)
 
Coop1701

Coop1701

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe they should divide them in to categories...

1.) Deflection

2.) Low Deflection

3.) Extremely Low Deflection

4.) Ultra Low Deflection
 
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RussPrince

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i use a shaft i like. doesn't matter what it is, and I don't give af what others use or think of my shaft. who cares?
 
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garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To do it objectively you'd need a device like Meucci uses in his videos where the cue-ball is struck in a consistent, repeatable fashion. Now, what do you do about tips used in the test? How much influence does the tip have on deflection? Some say very little, others say a fair amount. Golf shafts have the same issue in that various makers all have their own testing procedures. One brand's stiff is another brand's regular. Without an industry-standard testing protocol testing for deflection would be a waste of time.
 
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arps

arps

tirador (ng pansit)
Silver Member
Poolplayer2016 said:
First of all...all cues have deflection...so if you don't have a low deflection cue then you have a high deflection cue or something in between. IMO cues/shafts should be sold with a deflection rating...otherwise if you aren't buying a LD shaft then you have no benchmark to go by, especially buying online.
Click to expand...

im not really sure how you can rate/measure it. also, deflection will depend on a lot of factors - weight, ferrule material, tip.
 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Poolplayer2016 said:
First of all...all cues have deflection...so if you don't have a low deflection cue then you have a high deflection cue or something in between. IMO cues/shafts should be sold with a deflection rating...otherwise if you aren't buying a LD shaft then you have no benchmark to go by, especially buying online.
Click to expand...

Are you gonna have a benchmark for feel too?
How about durability ?
I can drill a 3/8 by 5" deep hole on a shaft and install thin nylon ferrule. It will have a really low cue ball squirt rating.
But, it might last you a week and it will feel like wearing tube socks as condom.
 
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Walt69

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
JoeyInCali said:
Are you gonna have a benchmark for feel too?
How about durability ?
I can drill a 3/8 by 5" deep hole on a shaft and install thin nylon ferrule. It will have a really low cue ball squirt rating.
But, it might last you a week and it will feel like wearing tube socks as condom.
Click to expand...

...wait. What kind of tube sock? Are we talking the scratchy wool kind or the kind with the nice silky sherpa liner... ;-)
 
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