Pool cue vs. Carom Cue

Scott, Next time I play at BilliardFactory or Park, I'll give you a call. I'll bring down my Longoni, and I can share with you my thoughts.

predator makes carom shafts, LD shaft for carom?? im interested to know what you think.

scottjen26 said:

Referencing my other post, 3 cushion is alive and well in Jacksonville and I may start playing a bit more seriously again. Is there a distinct benefit in using a specialized carom cue, such as Longoni or Schuler?

On the one hand, I play pool at a pretty competitive level and am very used to my cue and shaft and compensating for deflection, curve, etc. Comes in handy when estimating hits in 3 cushion. However, the LD properties of the shaft make the tip section light and that is noticeable when hitting the larger carom balls, although I can still juice it up pretty well.

A carom cue and shaft may be more suited to the game, but I would be concerned about having to adjust differently for deflection/curve and then switching back and forth. I've never used a carom cue, even when I used to play much more about 15 years ago, and averaged a respectable .7 with my normal Schon shaft. But that was also a solid shaft and not LD.

Ideally I could find a stiffer, more conically tapered shaft that would fit my Schon (5/16x14 thread) and have very similar properties to my existing shafts (314-2, Mezz WD-700). Not sure if anything like that even exists...

Thoughts, especially from players like me who switch back and forth? And if the recommendation is a carom cue, suggestions on cuemakers, where to purchase, and price for an entry level cue?

Thanks,
Scott

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hey bro have you thought about getting/trying out a mezz Hybrid Pro2? they're really stiff and have a conical taper. honestly it seems like exactly what you're looking for

here's a couple of links with info and pictures so you can get an idea what its like.
here's a picture of one so you can get a look at the taper for

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...4ZA&iact=rc&dur=1176&page=8&start=137&ndsp=22

here's some info

http://cueworld.com.au/store/images/Hybrid Pro2.png

scott,
i play both games for some years , from balkline to straight pool & 3 cushion .
About the cues, even i own dedicated cues for both games , i've found that a schuler-jointed cue is a very good solution , due to the many tapers avaible & the 22mm collar diameter as standard.

i've tried some pool stuff as compromise for both disciplines, like mezz HP2 and other shaft variations, IMHO it's a soft compromise, not so bad, but not as stiff as regular conical 3C shafts : it is a pool shaft. a stiff pool shaft isn't a stiff carom shaft ...
Longoni are excellent, but for me good for carom as long as they are wood jointed : almost all the players of my carom club own wood jointed longoni's, so we can swap our shafts. if i buy a longoni with vp2 i'm f...d
Longoni is far from all the best production carom cues when it comes to shaft taper choices. a huge choice, but it's production.
i am not sure that the longoni pool cues do have the same collar diameter than the longoni carom cues, which is 22mm. May be someone can answer ?

to be more accurate about my personnal choices:
at this moment, i like to use some Stany's schuler-like jointed cues ("stradivarius") for both carom & pool games (even if for pool i do prefer my barenbrugge , it's more easy to take one butt that 2 in a soft case) : 73cm (29'') 406g for the butt , 69cm 12mm 118g straight conical taper for 3 cushion , 74cm 13mm 120g shaft (29'') with pool taper for straight pool.
versatile config it is . If i need to adjust the weight, then i play with different kind of removable wraps (weight avaible from 11g to 30g & more) . yes , a typical habbit of carom player it is
i got other compatible shafts -and other butts- to play 1 cushion/1 rail ( 67cm 11.5mm conical 120g) , for straight rail & balkline i like 67cm 11.0mm 118g combined with a lighter butt (73cm/29'' 350g).i do like to play light for the "small games" , around 480g with a removable silicon wrap on it .
predator low deflection is avaible for the schuler-like joint, but to my taste i do prefer normal maple . will not increase my average , training being the only key possible for my own progression ...

feel free to prod "Zensteve" on az (steve andersen) if you want to know more about stany's schuler-jointed shafts & cues. 100% schuler compatible, but custom they are , not like schuler-slc

I thought I would find flipping back/ forth between the two tapers wold be difficult, but it really wasn't.

Carom taper is a must for them big balls.

Bob Ameen was a national champion 3 cushion player who used a pool cue. His was built by Mike Fedunca. I assume Boston shorty used a pool cue as well, though I have no direct knowledge of this. Shorty played strong billiards too.

In 3c, the balls are larger and heavier. this tends to punish equipment not designed for such use. also, 3c shots often go to such extremes of English that the deflection of a pool taper could cause more problems than it offers advantages.

Carom games vary too. Balkline and straight rail require a profound sense of speed control. Most of the equipment I have seen that is intended for such play is lighter than normal pool cue weight.

For me, transitioning from a 58" pro taper pool cue to a 57" conical taper Dieckman, I find a greater sense of comfort with the billiard equipment, this despite 30 years of playing pocket billiards with the traditional pool cue. With the heavier balls, the stiffer shaft ends up feeling normal as I stroke through. As far as the taper difference, you may find that your stroke changes for 3c also. In my case, the taper difference felt normal once my pool player stroke gave way to a more 3c appropriate approach.

AFAIK Boston Shorty played both caroms and pockets with the same cue. It was either a Rambow or a top-of-the-line Titlist.

He did tell me though that if he had a big match or tournament coming up he would quit all the other games for two or three weeks before. The strokes and techniques are different enough that even with same cue he needed to concentrate on one discipline.

scottjen26 said:

Thx for replies.

Maybe I can try and get a shaft made or something...
Scott

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The only potential problem with this is most pool cues the Joint diameter is smaller than carom cues. That means if you want a conical taper the shaft may need to be even shorter. A smaller starting dia means a shorter length with a strict cone. Your cueman can maybe start later with the taper.
Carom cue joints are around .870 +- a smidgen.

Hi guys,

I'm an accomplished pool player, but somewhat new to 3c. My friend Jimmy who owns Classic billiards here in south eastern Pa. just installed a Gabriels Kronos, and I can finally put in some hours playing this awesome game. I have a 10' gold crown 3c table in storage here at home waiting to take the place of my GC4

Last week I played maybe 4 hours and I used my LP custom pool cue with an OB1 shaft. I looked at it today and for the first time in 2 years of using it the tip is mushroomed!! On some shots I did feel under gunned with my cue. That and knowing the shaft is "hollow" I opted for a real 3c cue.

Instead of buying a Predator shaft for my cue >$300< I did find a great deal on Ebay for an Adams WH-2 3c cue with 2 shafts for $210 shipped. I saw it elsewhere for $375 to $450, so I had to jump on it. I have a lathe here at home and do my own cue work, so altering the tip, taper and weight will be fun to work with.

I will let you all know how it goes. Maybe some more info from a "pool" player convert will help your process.

good luck,

Gerry

scottjen26 said:

Referencing my other post, 3 cushion is alive and well in Jacksonville and I may start playing a bit more seriously again. Is there a distinct benefit in using a specialized carom cue, such as Longoni or Schuler?

On the one hand, I play pool at a pretty competitive level and am very used to my cue and shaft and compensating for deflection, curve, etc. Comes in handy when estimating hits in 3 cushion. However, the LD properties of the shaft make the tip section light and that is noticeable when hitting the larger carom balls, although I can still juice it up pretty well.

A carom cue and shaft may be more suited to the game, but I would be concerned about having to adjust differently for deflection/curve and then switching back and forth. I've never used a carom cue, even when I used to play much more about 15 years ago, and averaged a respectable .7 with my normal Schon shaft. But that was also a solid shaft and not LD.

Ideally I could find a stiffer, more conically tapered shaft that would fit my Schon (5/16x14 thread) and have very similar properties to my existing shafts (314-2, Mezz WD-700). Not sure if anything like that even exists...

Thoughts, especially from players like me who switch back and forth? And if the recommendation is a carom cue, suggestions on cuemakers, where to purchase, and price for an entry level cue?

Thanks,
Scott

Click to expand...

Scott, welcome to the club!!!! 3C is definitely addictive. When I started playing, I found myself thinking about all the different shots and even dreamed about it. While I was mostly a 9B/10B player at the time, I decided to buy a cue specifically for playing 3C. I was lucky enough to know someone locally that have several different types (longoni, schuler, diekman, kilby, adams, and others). I ended up buying an old adams 3C cue which served me well for a while. But I got tired of having to carry around 3 different cues to accommodate what I played and when. I decided to buy a Schuler because of the joint and all the different shafts readily available. I took my time and found one of the last cues Mr. Schuler made before he passed away. Now I have 1 cue with 2 different shafts to accommodate all the games I play. If I were you, I would definitely look into getting one, especially if you can find one of the early ones (not to say that Noel Mendoza and Jacoby make bad ones). You will be happy you did. Just my $.02