Adam cue?
- Thread starter gtwhite
- Start date
Very doubtful that it's an ivory joint. Adam and all its variations tended to use an implex-like (not necessarily original implex) material for buttplates and joints. But, if you see a grain going through the joint, that would be another matter.
All the best,
WW
All the best,
WW
Asams
Looked in my 3rd edition collectors blue book and your cue wasn't in the Adams cue section....................
Not one Adam's cue in my book had anything but a ss joint.
That it.....................
Looked in my 3rd edition collectors blue book and your cue wasn't in the Adams cue section....................
Not one Adam's cue in my book had anything but a ss joint.
That it.....................
Adam Cues
Adam/Helmstetter made cues starting in the late 70's that had flat faced joints that were not stainless steel or brass. I have a few on hand. I can not vouch whether they ever used ivory but may have used something similar to the material Meucci used that has grain like ivory.
Adam/Helmstetter made cues starting in the late 70's that had flat faced joints that were not stainless steel or brass. I have a few on hand. I can not vouch whether they ever used ivory but may have used something similar to the material Meucci used that has grain like ivory.
Cue book
Some of the Adams cues say they have SS joints in my book.
All the Adam's cues look like they have SS collars but not all of the Adam's cues say its a SS joint collar on every model in the book .
Some of the Adams cues say they have SS joints in my book.
All the Adam's cues look like they have SS collars but not all of the Adam's cues say its a SS joint collar on every model in the book .
It's an Adam
Ask yourself a question. If you bought this exact design from a cue maker today how much would it cost? Answer: It would cost more to get made than you can get out of a vintage Adam. Makes no sense to fake. I have been told that Adam did in rare cases use Ivory joints, haven't seen one in person. That is a beautiful cue and would probably cost around $2000 for a reputable cue maker to build. I believe it was Jim Ingram that told me that, but can't remember for sure. He has been making cues longer than I have been alive and God only knows how many Adam cues have passed through his hands.:smile: A close up picture of the joint would be very helpful. If it is Ivory it will show on the end grain where the pin protrudes. Sometimes Ivory can be light on grain pattern and hard to discern from a side view.
Ask yourself a question. If you bought this exact design from a cue maker today how much would it cost? Answer: It would cost more to get made than you can get out of a vintage Adam. Makes no sense to fake. I have been told that Adam did in rare cases use Ivory joints, haven't seen one in person. That is a beautiful cue and would probably cost around $2000 for a reputable cue maker to build. I believe it was Jim Ingram that told me that, but can't remember for sure. He has been making cues longer than I have been alive and God only knows how many Adam cues have passed through his hands.:smile: A close up picture of the joint would be very helpful. If it is Ivory it will show on the end grain where the pin protrudes. Sometimes Ivory can be light on grain pattern and hard to discern from a side view.
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It is possible the white material is cerocite. I know Adam used this material in some cues.
I agree, but at least a $2000 custom cue would be worth 2K vs.an import, which is worth very little.
Adam values are pretty strong actually. Some of them have attracted astonishing prices on the open market. In fact they can sell for substantially more than new. Which makes them a good investment. Who knew?
I take it even further. Some Taiwan imports (far from an Adam) have been attracting some astonishing prices on the open market. Certain ones that originally sold for about $40 in the 80's and 90's can now pull $150. That's 3.75 times increase in value. Crazy? Yup. In fact it is so crazy I am not even going to tell you exactly what cues this is true for.
Something more impressive? Certain specific Taiwan imports bought new only 3-5 years ago for $150-$180 that you can sell for $250-$300 today. Crazy? Yup. Again, not going to say which ones. Show me a custom that doubled it's value in 5 years.
Of course, in absolute value this is very little compared to $2k. But how many customs will you buy for $2k and sell for $7,500? In fact, how many $2k customs are worth $2k on the used market? Most are worth about half of their original price.
So what I am talking about are exceptions. But a $2k cue that resells for $2k or goes up in vale would be an exception as well.
Not a rant, and certainly not directed at you.
Just more of a reality check.
I could show you a cue made in the USA in 1970, 2 old growth shafts, full splice, that originally cost nearly $1,000 in 1970 dollars, about $180 at the time. Today the owner would struggle to get the original $180 out of it, and certainly nowhere near the $1000 value of the original purchase price allowing for inflation.
A 1970 Adam of the same level? My friend, people will be lining up at your door to buy it.
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Considering the vast number of Adam cues out there, very few would sell for a profit.
There are a couple of models that are desirable, but in my opinion the quality just isn't there.
Adam cues are far better than a lot of the imports coming out of China or Taiwan, but you see so many falling apart.
There is always that exception but at the end of the day they are still an import.
I think that the thread about LD shafts showed some considerable bias regarding custom cues. Almost like confirmation bias.
I have seen some custom cues that I absolutely hate the look of them. I would not pay a penny over material & labor costs for them & probably not even that.
That said, if in my hands it played noticeably better or exceptionally better than say a production Adam made when Helmstetter was there, how much value would I place on it? It might be invaluable to me or another.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder & if one likes & wants a certain look then a custom cue may be the only way to go.
That said, how does one ever know how it will play until they get it into their hands? To me, that makes them a crap shoot for how they will play.
So... to me a custom cue is a personal thing & I do not see how one would or should hold or increase in value other than driven by the hype & the want of a potential buyer. Is it stamp or coin collecting or is about how well a cue plays?
Obviously I am not a collector or an investor. That said I have an Old Players, a Meucci Original, a Helmstetter Adam, & 1/2 dozen or so cheaper cues because I liked how they felt & played.
I regret that I do not have a certain production cue. When I was in the market for my first 2 pcs. cue I went to a local shop & after holding every cue in the place & 'trying' many, the only one that I really liked had pink accents on it. I left because I could not make myself buy a cue with pink accents. I decided that night, what the hell, & went back the next day to get it. It was not there & when I asked about it, the counter person told me that a little old man came in after I was there & he bought it. I wish I had that cue today. I don't know, but I have seen a couple of Adam cues with pink vaneers & it well could have been one but that may have even been before Adam was in business. I don't know.
A player in my area has a Jensen cue that I love how it looks. The owner has hit with my Helmstetter Adam & OB Pro & said it hit nearly the same as his Jensen with the Z2. They both have the same joint & are spiced.
Anyway, that's just my take & food for thought. I don't really get the market since playing the game is very personal & so is the implement IMO. That said, I would think that custom cues should play well but playing well is, as I said, a personal assessment & one will never really know until the cue is in hand.
There is no need to roast me at the stake, but informative info is certainly welcome.
Best Wishes 2 ALL.
PS The original George Balabuska was an Import. The man that is.
I have seen some custom cues that I absolutely hate the look of them. I would not pay a penny over material & labor costs for them & probably not even that.
That said, if in my hands it played noticeably better or exceptionally better than say a production Adam made when Helmstetter was there, how much value would I place on it? It might be invaluable to me or another.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder & if one likes & wants a certain look then a custom cue may be the only way to go.
That said, how does one ever know how it will play until they get it into their hands? To me, that makes them a crap shoot for how they will play.
So... to me a custom cue is a personal thing & I do not see how one would or should hold or increase in value other than driven by the hype & the want of a potential buyer. Is it stamp or coin collecting or is about how well a cue plays?
Obviously I am not a collector or an investor. That said I have an Old Players, a Meucci Original, a Helmstetter Adam, & 1/2 dozen or so cheaper cues because I liked how they felt & played.
I regret that I do not have a certain production cue. When I was in the market for my first 2 pcs. cue I went to a local shop & after holding every cue in the place & 'trying' many, the only one that I really liked had pink accents on it. I left because I could not make myself buy a cue with pink accents. I decided that night, what the hell, & went back the next day to get it. It was not there & when I asked about it, the counter person told me that a little old man came in after I was there & he bought it. I wish I had that cue today. I don't know, but I have seen a couple of Adam cues with pink vaneers & it well could have been one but that may have even been before Adam was in business. I don't know.
A player in my area has a Jensen cue that I love how it looks. The owner has hit with my Helmstetter Adam & OB Pro & said it hit nearly the same as his Jensen with the Z2. They both have the same joint & are spiced.
Anyway, that's just my take & food for thought. I don't really get the market since playing the game is very personal & so is the implement IMO. That said, I would think that custom cues should play well but playing well is, as I said, a personal assessment & one will never really know until the cue is in hand.
There is no need to roast me at the stake, but informative info is certainly welcome.
Best Wishes 2 ALL.
PS The original George Balabuska was an Import. The man that is.
Actually that was done last year.
Agreed.
Yet the market is indeed doing what we think it should not.
There are far more exceptions than one might think.
I myself would prefer a US made "custom" or at least a US made very good production cue. I am just making observations of what is actually going on.
As an example, how is it that so many older Adam cues can pull more than a Huebler? Similar age and similar level. Does it make sense? I dunno.
Many more Adam cues were made. Huebler was a master craftsman. What's up with that?
Heck, I have even seen a Taiwan Cobra cue go for more than a Huebler.
Here is an example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cobra-Pool-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-PAUL-HU...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Condition is certainly an issue. But that Cobra should be a $30 cue all day.
How about this? http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTHENTIC-C...304787?hash=item2363357b93:g:NhEAAOSwzgRWxnka
That cobra is maybe a $40-$50 cue.
There are many examples, and better examples, I just picked a couple quick ones.
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