Using a bar cue for draw...

KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Jeff, I think because you were using another cue, something unfamiliar to you and you were not really expecting anything, that you just let your natural stroke shine.

You stroked it without thinking about it, without tightening up, without worry, in other words your stroke was fluid and your wrist/grip was loose, and you drew the ever living snot out of the ball. Your subconscious took over and did what you always could do, but maybe never really trusted it enough. The trick is to now be consistent and do that all the time. Good luck.

Just my 2 cents.
 
K

KMRUNOUT

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
chefjeff said:
I happened to be playing some bar pool a while back using a bar cue that had a nice tip but was heavy at the tip end and thick, etc., as most bar cues seem to be.

I had a table-length shot and needed to draw the cueball back to where it started. I fired away and, surprisingly to me, the c/b came back too far with ease. That is, I didn't hit that low or anything that I could tell, but it sure came back easily and far.

Compared to the l/d shaft I usually use, this draw was almost too easy.

What's up with that? Can anyone provide some science to show why this happened?

Thanks,



Jeff Livingston

EDIT: It was a valley cue ball with, I think, the purple logo on it.

EDIT again: The tip was dime-shaped.
Click to expand...



My guess is you hit a tad lower than you thought, perhaps near the miscue limit. It happens. And it is extremely difficult to detect in hindsight. Also, the purple logo aramith ball is a bit weird. It draws absurdly easy and tends to want to keep spinning once spinning. It is also very possible that the object balls are not the correct weight. I have certainly encountered heavy object balls on some bar tables.

KMRUNOUT


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M

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
cue ball was lighter in weight or was just cleaned and maybe polished.

otherwise all the other thoughts would not have made it come back so far as it did.
 
pt109

pt109

WO double hemlock
Silver Member
chefjeff said:
Dr Dave says 'no' to that, iirc.

I hope it turns out to be just the tip shape....that'd be the easy way to exploit it.


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...

Picture a perfectly flat tip hitting whitey quite a bit off center...
...only the edge would strike whitey, producing a glancing blow....weak hit.
....squirts more also
 
O

overlord

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
KMRUNOUT said:
Actually the exact opposite is true.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Click to expand...

OK try drawing the cueball with one of those break cues with the ceramic super hard tips.

Most house cues have a fiber ferrule which is not too hard. The test is drawing straight backwards not drawing off the rail with spin.

With softer ferrule and tip there is a hesitation like a shock absorber which leaves the tip on the cue ball for a fraction of a second longer.

One pocket players like soft tips because they can get more English out of the cue ball therefore throwing objects ball farther especially off rails.

I notice the difference with ivory ferrules right away. Its much easier to draw with softer plastic ferrules

There are other variables such as the stiffness of the shaft. Most one pocket players don't like shafts that are too stiff.

Players like Efren play with whippy shafts.
 
Knels

Knels

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pt109 said:
Picture a perfectly flat tip hitting whitey quite a bit off center...
...only the edge would strike whitey, producing a glancing blow....weak hit.
....squirts more also
Click to expand...

Damn pt now u got me wanting to mess around with a dime shape again. Also I heard a good rule of thumb is dime for small diameter, nickel for large. Anyone carry a dime on 12.5 and up?
 
greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
overlord said:
OK try drawing the cueball with one of those break cues with the ceramic super hard tips.

Most house cues have a fiber ferrule which is not too hard. The test is drawing straight backwards not drawing off the rail with spin.

With softer ferrule and tip there is a hesitation like a shock absorber which leaves the tip on the cue ball for a fraction of a second longer.

One pocket players like soft tips because they can get more English out of the cue ball therefore throwing objects ball farther especially off rails.

I notice the difference with ivory ferrules right away. Its much easier to draw with softer plastic ferrules

There are other variables such as the stiffness of the shaft. Most one pocket players don't like shafts that are too stiff.

Players like Efren play with whippy shafts.
Click to expand...



That last sentence is the only thing true here




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
M

medallio

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My guess would be that it wasn’t the stick at all. Probably cloth that grabbed well. I’m used to slow tables so on fast ones I feel like I just tap and the ball draws far
 
F

FastJK

Registered
Bar Cue

Find the best player in your area. Play a couple races to 7, 9 ball for $50. Make him use a bar cue. Then watch and learn.
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
overlord said:
OK try drawing the cueball with one of those break cues with the ceramic super hard tips.

Most house cues have a fiber ferrule which is not too hard. The test is drawing straight backwards not drawing off the rail with spin.

With softer ferrule and tip there is a hesitation like a shock absorber which leaves the tip on the cue ball for a fraction of a second longer.

One pocket players like soft tips because they can get more English out of the cue ball therefore throwing objects ball farther especially off rails.

I notice the difference with ivory ferrules right away. Its much easier to draw with softer plastic ferrules

There are other variables such as the stiffness of the shaft. Most one pocket players don't like shafts that are too stiff.

Players like Efren play with whippy shafts.
Click to expand...
WRONG. No actual evidence to back up anything here.Ferrule hardness has NADA to do with amount of draw possible.
 
MattPoland

MattPoland

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FastJK said:
Find the best player in your area. Play a couple races to 7, 9 ball for $50. Make him use a bar cue. Then watch and learn.
Click to expand...


I’ve done exactly that. He started calling me his ATM and I witnessed a lot about what you can do with a good stroke, cool head, keen eye and horse sense.


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Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
All cues are not the same, yet that seems to be what some are claiming?

They should all be playing with 20 dollar cues, or even house cues with screw on tips, and leave the rest of us who obviously cannot play, to play with finely made cues.
 
Last edited:
R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
MattPoland said:
I’ve done exactly that. He started calling me his ATM and I witnessed a lot about what you can do with a good stroke, cool head, keen eye and horse sense.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Click to expand...

Dont listen to some out of town Jasper. That game with the 15 numbered balls is the devils tool buddy.
 
chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
KMRUNOUT said:
My guess is you hit a tad lower than you thought, perhaps near the miscue limit. It happens. And it is extremely difficult to detect in hindsight. Also, the purple logo aramith ball is a bit weird. It draws absurdly easy and tends to want to keep spinning once spinning. It is also very possible that the object balls are not the correct weight. I have certainly encountered heavy object balls on some bar tables.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Click to expand...


Thanks.

I usually hit too low on draw as the norm. When someone on my team miscues, they turn look at me and say, Jeff taught me that. I don't think that was it.

The purple cue ball is hated by the "real" players around here (they sub in a red circle usually) and is not used because of that at the State tourneys. It is said to be "too heavy." I dunno. I've hit every kind of cueball there is, including the old bowling ball cueballs on the big old coin ops and got draw but not ever close to what happened.



Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff

chefjeff

If not now...
Silver Member
overlord said:
OK try drawing the cueball with one of those break cues with the ceramic super hard tips.

Most house cues have a fiber ferrule which is not too hard. The test is drawing straight backwards not drawing off the rail with spin.

With softer ferrule and tip there is a hesitation like a shock absorber which leaves the tip on the cue ball for a fraction of a second longer.

One pocket players like soft tips because they can get more English out of the cue ball therefore throwing objects ball farther especially off rails.

I notice the difference with ivory ferrules right away. Its much easier to draw with softer plastic ferrules

There are other variables such as the stiffness of the shaft. Most one pocket players don't like shafts that are too stiff.

Players like Efren play with whippy shafts.
Click to expand...

MY personal ferrule is very soft, a ld shaft and all.

The ferrule on that bar cue was heavy, if anything. It was long, not short, not soft. It was not blue from play and the tip was dressed by someone recently into a nice dime shape. That's why I picked that cue from the rack.

A caveman could have gotten draw with it.



Jeff Livingston
 
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