Rent during shutdowns due to COVID-19

Bbutler

Bbutler

topshots.ca
Silver Member
Not sure how many are facing rent issues, but this article is very much on point. It's Canadian in origin but much of what it says will apply in USA / Europe too.

https://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2020/3/covid-19-and-commercial-leases-in-canada-expert-insight

Remember, there's an argument to be made that it's not only the tenant who is in breach of the lease, but also the landlord. While it's on us tenants to pay rent, it's also on the landlords to provide a premises in which a business such as ours is legal to operate, and currently in many jurisdictions they can not do that. Don't agree to any rent deferrals or agreements until you've spoken to lawyers and are sure how to proceed.
 
muskyed

muskyed

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Courts have ruled property owners/landloards are not responsible for natural disasters. Interesting thought though, but keep in mind that property owners have mortgages to pay also. They are not the bad guy here. Going to be tough times for businesses that weren't financially sound before all this started.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hope everyone has applied for SBA disaster loan/grant abd the Payroll Protection Program. These can pay your rent and then some.

We will be lucky to reopen by the beginning of our slow season. When we closed we were at our absolute peak.
 
G

Geosnooker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nope.

Provincial, not federal legislation.

Rents are due and owing. Period. Very straight forward and lots of legal precedence in British Common law.

There is a reason that insurance exists that can cover a wide range of unexpected incidences from war to natural disasters to plagues. These need to be written into a policy and can be expensive
 
C

CocoboloCowboy

Cowboys are my hero's
Silver Member
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mikemosconi

mikemosconi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am not an attorney and I am not a business owner that pays rent-- but if your state or local jurisdiction has a stay at home order for all citizens then you are NOT closed bc of a natural disaster. The government has decided that they will usurp the right of citizens to decide for themselves whether or not to venture out in public despite risks and the govt. has decided to usurp your right to open your business. That is NOT a natural disaster that forced closed roads, flooding, etc. The govt.took away your legal right to make a choice.

Unless my lease stated that I owed rent during a forced government shutdown and I signed it - I would NOT pay rent and challenge any attempt to collect it.
 
Kid Dynomite

Kid Dynomite

Dennis (Michael) Wilson
Silver Member
mikemosconi said:
I am not an attorney and I am not a business owner that pays rent-- but if your state or local jurisdiction has a stay at home order for all citizens then you are NOT closed bc of a natural disaster. The government has decided that they will usurp the right of citizens to decide for themselves whether or not to venture out in public despite risks and the govt. has decided to usurp your right to open your business. That is NOT a natural disaster that forced closed roads, flooding, etc. The govt.took away your legal right to make a choice.



Unless my lease stated that I owed rent during a forced government shutdown and I signed it - I would NOT pay rent and challenge any attempt to collect it.
Click to expand...
This is a classic case of big bank take little bank ...

If you are having trouble paying your rent then where are the funds for the lawyer coming from???

The landlord has" much" deeper pockets and would crush any opposition. The legal fees would be more than any rent savings.

But, what do I know! Go for it and report back! Curious how much of a retainer the lawyer is requiring???

Kd


Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Kid Dynomite said:
This is a classic case of big bank take little bank ...

If you are having trouble paying your rent then where are the funds for the lawyer coming from???

The landlord has" much" deeper pockets and would crush any opposition. The legal fees would be more than any rent savings.

But, what do I know! Go for it and report back! Curious how much of a retainer the lawyer is requiring???

Kd


Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

You think all landlords have deep pockets? Its the same old thing about somebody owning a business or building and people ASSUME they are rich, when in fact its the exact opposite.
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Force Majeure is defined in most leases. The governmental order shutting down a business is absolutely a Force Majeure event ( outside the control of both parties). A period of Force Majeure postpones or eliminates both parties obligations. Unless rent is expressly due during Force Majeure, it is open for debate.

Most FM clauses will say rent is due. If they don't challenge your landlord. Ask for a reduction.

In your state if evictions, late payments and fees are on moratorium as in NYS until 8/20, Don't Pay. This will be leverage in negotiations. Landlords should let you buy out for half rent... If you default they will suffer just as much. Lease prices are coming down... Probably by alot. Who's going to take your space and open???
 
S

SBC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Update: my landlord agreed to waive 2 months rent versus going to court. Based on the wording of my lease, I know I would have not been responsible for any rent. I received 5800 from SBA towards rent as well. We cannot open for pool until 6/26/20. Rent over these 14 weeks will be about 2k.
 
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