2 inch balls on 7ft bar box

ChicagoPete

Registered
And yet, one of the biggest authorities on pool tables answered your question and you still want to insist you are right.

So, you really didn't come here to find answers, but to make a statement that 7 foot tables play with 2" balls. Well, you'll be wrong no matter how many times you say it.



What Im saying is I dont know squat hence why Im asking for advice. Tge advice Im asking for is it worth buying 2 inch balls for a 7 foot table and is there much difference in play, if so what could I expect to see? They sell different sizes, dont have a clue if I ever used them on bar boxes in bars I played at because I didnt care to pay attention then.

Since you guys are authorities on pool could you let me know the difference play wise between using the different sizes Aramith sells? The reason I want to know is to shoot pool at home with family and friends on a table not a regulation tournament. Having some experience of playing pool in bar leagues over the years I have played on many Valley 7 ft tables and they ran better than what I have at home for some reason Im trying to figure out. My first step was asking here

At home I have a near mint 1973 Valley 7 ft table, its level with new felt and new cushions and with new 2 1/4 Aramith balls. Maybe the balls are cheap China knockoffs, maybe 2 inch balls I read off google is the answer. to have tge table run like tge better bar tables Ive seen. I dont know. I dont claim to know. I dont care the size of the balls I only care to get some helpful suggestions to make my table run better so I can enjoy pool at home. Instead of hearing me and helping me out you guys wanna talk about The USA Regs and cushions are not called bumpers anything but answer my question. its pretty sad because you just want to be right online but right about what? I dont care to be right, if I knew I was right I wouldnt be asking strangers for help. Sounds like none of you have tried using 2 inch balls on 7 ft table so if you havent tried it why are you answering my question on it? I guess I have to call Aramith to ask them to explain.
 

logical

Loose Rack
Silver Member
Using smaller balls (if we imagine for the moment that it is a desirable thing) just simply will not work well unless the height of the rail (bumper) nose is adjusted...and there is no easy way to lower it. A nose set up properly for 2.25 balls will be too high for 2.0 balls, play slow and bank long. I would forget the idea entirely unless you accept that it will play odd compared to any other table.

On the other hand, a used random 2 inch ball would cost you 5 bucks to try.
 
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Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
Using smaller balls (if we imagine for the moment that it is a desirable thing) just simply will not work well unless the height of the rail (bumper) nose is adjusted...and there is no easy way to lower it. I would forget the idea entirely.


aramith carom are 61.5mm
my table is modern for these size balls

i also had the oldest set aramith still makes, the old school with a single black dot on one ball, they advertise them as 61.5mm but they are indeed smaller when i hold them next to my modern sets

they play well on my table, no issues
 

ugotactionTX

I'm in dead rack!
Silver Member
While it may have not been intended, you sounded like an ignorant noob with the whole "google told me" and your use of terms like "felt and bumper" and then you proceed to argue with perhaps the foremost authority on pool tables... which is fine, just ignorant. As everyone here has mentioned already, the height of the nose of the rubber and ball size are closely related for proper play. You can't just arbitrarily change one them and expect it to "make it play better".

On another note, It might be more helpful if you can tell us what you don't like about the way it play's now. t it slow? does it bank short or long? ball hop when they hit a "bumper", does it roll off?
 
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iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To ChicagoPete, everyone was trying to help you, especially hang-the-9. When certain language, phrases, and questions are used/asked, the pool nuts who have devoted years of their lives to this game, can easily pick up on it, and know how knowledgeable the person is about pool. Nearly everyone who answered in this thread falls in that category.

Also, the poster by the name of realkingcobra, is a professional table mechanic, who actually travels the country to train other mechanics, and even trains the pool table factories how to install cloth, repair tables, etc. He probably has put cloth on 1000's of Valley tables alone.

I looked up your google search term, and found the actual page where you got the information that 2" balls belong on a 7' table:
https://www.mastersofgames.com/cat/pub/pool-balls.htm

If you look at the site in more detail, you can see its a British site, as all the prices are in Pounds. That's why they had odd ball sizes.

As everyone else said, for USA pool, ALL table sizes use 2.25" balls, for both the cue ball and the object balls. This includes 6' and 7' tables that you will find in bars, and 8' and 9' tables you will find in pool halls or people's homes.

There are so many different ball sizes, but they are for the "non-standard to the USA crowd", such as snooker balls (smaller), carom balls (larger), Korean carom balls (larger still), Russian pyramid balls (large), etc. For 99.9999999999999999999% of any table with pockets you will ever come across in the USA, 2.25" is the only size you should use.

Back to fixing your problem, can you let us know what reaction you are experiencing with the balls? And what reaction you are expecting? Is the reaction ball-to-ball? Or ball-to-rail? Or ball-to-bed cloth? Maybe a video would help as well. If we see that, we can perhaps offer assistance. Realkingcobra would be the authority on this from the AZ community.

Hope this helps:)
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
What Im saying is I dont know squat hence why Im asking for advice. Tge advice Im asking for is it worth buying 2 inch balls for a 7 foot table and is there much difference in play, if so what could I expect to see? They sell different sizes, dont have a clue if I ever used them on bar boxes in bars I played at because I didnt care to pay attention then.

Since you guys are authorities on pool could you let me know the difference play wise between using the different sizes Aramith sells? The reason I want to know is to shoot pool at home with family and friends on a table not a regulation tournament. Having some experience of playing pool in bar leagues over the years I have played on many Valley 7 ft tables and they ran better than what I have at home for some reason Im trying to figure out. My first step was asking here

At home I have a near mint 1973 Valley 7 ft table, its level with new felt and new cushions and with new 2 1/4 Aramith balls. Maybe the balls are cheap China knockoffs, maybe 2 inch balls I read off google is the answer. to have tge table run like tge better bar tables Ive seen. I dont know. I dont claim to know. I dont care the size of the balls I only care to get some helpful suggestions to make my table run better so I can enjoy pool at home. Instead of hearing me and helping me out you guys wanna talk about The USA Regs and cushions are not called bumpers anything but answer my question. its pretty sad because you just want to be right online but right about what? I dont care to be right, if I knew I was right I wouldnt be asking strangers for help. Sounds like none of you have tried using 2 inch balls on 7 ft table so if you havent tried it why are you answering my question on it? I guess I have to call Aramith to ask them to explain.

I've been working on pool table for over 38 years, Valleys built way back in the early 60's even. I'm going to say this one last time, NO 1973 or ANY other Valley table since the time they were first designed and built in this country were designed to be played with anything other than 2 1/4" balls, that INCLUDES the Valley 6' as well. ANY Valley table specifically designed for 2" or 2 1"16" balls were built and designed with snooker style pockets, as they still are in the UK today....but NOT in America, period!
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
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Silver Member
American pool has always been played with 2 1/4" balls.
"Always" is a long time.

Below is from a 1911 Brunwick-Balke-Collender price list. Note that the professional size for pool balls was 2 5/16ths and that sizes for home tables went down to 2 inches.

Scan20200129_0001.jpg
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
What Im saying is I dont know squat hence why Im asking for advice. Tge advice Im asking for is it worth buying 2 inch balls for a 7 foot table and is there much difference in play, if so what could I expect to see? They sell different sizes, dont have a clue if I ever used them on bar boxes in bars I played at because I didnt care to pay attention then.

.

The answer is still no. The balls are not the problem, Find a table mechanic and get that kooky table looked at and see if he can fix it.

Jerimy Chambers is the guy in the Chicago area to contact.
 

Bob Jewett

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Shows the ball sizes....what games were they used in??
Pool games? They list 16-ball sets. That could be rotation, continuous, .... Eight ball was not a thing at that time so far as I know.

I'm pretty sure 2 5/16 was the size used in pool championships at that time.
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
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... Im asking what the difference in play is between the 3 pool ball sizes Aramith sells when played on a 7 foot table?
...
If you play with smaller balls on a table that is set up for standard 2.25-inch balls, I think the main thing you will notice is that when the ball hits the cushion the speed and angle out of the cushion will change. The angle will be longer (more parallel to the rail) and the speed will be less. Banking and kicking will change.
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
Pool games? They list 16-ball sets. That could be rotation, continuous, .... Eight ball was not a thing at that time so far as I know.

I'm pretty sure 2 5/16 was the size used in pool championships at that time.

Cue ballsfrom (left to right):

Russian pyramid*and*kaisa—68*mm (​2*11⁄16*in)Carom—61.5*mm (​2*7⁄16*in)International*pool—57.15*mm (​2*1⁄4*in)British-style*pool (large) —56*mm (​2*3⁄16*in)Snooker—52.5*mm (​2*1⁄15*in)British-style pool (regular)—51*mm (2*in)

Not shown: miniature pool—approximately 38*mm (​1*1⁄2*in).

A*billiard ball*is a small, hard*ball*used in*cue sports, such as*carom billiards,*pool, and*snooker. The number, type, diameter, color, and pattern of the balls differ depending upon the specific game being played. Various particular ball properties such as*hardness,*friction coefficient*and*resilience*are important to accuracy
 

Bob Jewett

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Cue ballsfrom (left to right):

Russian pyramid*and*kaisa—6... miniature pool—approximately 38*mm (​1*1⁄2*in).
I was talking about standard numbered and colored pool balls. Similar in appearance to the balls of today. Balls used for pool on American tables.

They varied in size from 2 inches for home tables to 2.25 inches for standard play to 2 5/16 inches for championship play in 1911.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
The big cue ball too

I was talking about standard numbered and colored pool balls. Similar in appearance to the balls of today. Balls used for pool on American tables.

They varied in size from 2 inches for home tables to 2.25 inches for standard play to 2 5/16 inches for championship play in 1911.


Wasn't that Valleys that we played with the big cue ball on? I think the big cue ball for bar tables was 2.375" but I will admit I have slept a bunch of times since seeing one. I think radius is more important concerning bumper height than diameter so all of these different sizes can be cut roughly in half.

Not that I care anymore but I think all of the talk about balls is a waste of time in talking about the original issue. The OP says he got the table moved, new cloth, and new cushions for $450. The way he wrote it that may include the table too.

At $450 for the move, "new" cushions, and new cloth I am left with the suspicion that he didn't get the best of everything. If the cushions were very cheap or came out of the company's junk bin that could explain play. If the table was dropped and cabinet damage, another possibility. Rails tight? New balls will almost certainly play better than his old ones but they aren't likely to cure his problems.

I am looking for a Valley and taking some interest in Valley threads or I would be long gone. Never know when I will pick up a tidbit to help myself. As far as my table knowledge and the OP's, I am just a one eyed man in the house of the blind!

Hu
 

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
I was talking about standard numbered and colored pool balls. Similar in appearance to the balls of today. Balls used for pool on American tables.

They varied in size from 2 inches for home tables to 2.25 inches for standard play to 2 5/16 inches for championship play in 1911.

Nope, 8 ball was the first pocket pool game, started with 2 1/4" balls before 1911. The 2 1/4" was the accepted size of the balls for American pocket pool. Only ball to vary in size later on was the cue ball because of the invention of the coin operated pool table. The cue ball had to be bigger, smaller, heavier, or metal infused in order to separate it from the 2 1/4" object balls.

Please refer to any articles that specify the use of 2 5/16 object balls for American pool, if you'd like.
 

Buzzard II

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Nomenclature aside, with a 47 year old bar table I would think that plenty of fat ass porkers have sat on the table through the years, no matter how nice it looks. Sounds like cracked glue lines between the cushions and backboards. Ergo, dead freakin' ah, bumpers.
 

Bob Jewett

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Nope, 8 ball was the first pocket pool game, started with 2 1/4" balls before 1911. ....
Brunswick-Balke-Collender published rule books until about 1942 and were the authority. They also ran the championships and set the prizes and rules.

The game we would call eight ball did not appear in the rule book until the 1908 edition. Previous editions of the rule book ended at shuffleboard (page 116). In 1908 additional games were added including this game that BBC Co. seems to have invented to sell ball sets. They called it, with tremendous inventiveness, "BBC Co. Pool". The game continued to be called this through the 1942 edition of the major rules revision of 1925. Below is the start of that first appearance of the rules of the game.

There were many, many pocket billiard games before 1908 and thus before eight ball. The championship game in 1908 was Continuous Pool which was like 14.1 but you ran off all the balls of each rack and started each new rack with a full-rack break shot. This is the game that de Oro won pool championships at. Fifteen ball pool was scored like rotation but you did not have to shoot the balls in rotation. In Pyramid Pool the first person to make any 8 balls won. Rotation Pool, Chicago Pool, Two-ball Pool, 41 Pool, .... But no 8 ball until 1908.

Scan20200129_0004.jpg
 
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jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
Nomenclature aside, with a 47 year old bar table I would think that plenty of fat ass porkers have sat on the table through the years, no matter how nice it looks. Sounds like cracked glue lines between the cushions and backboards. Ergo, dead freakin' ah, bumpers.

Fat ass porkers?

What a douche.

:crying::crying::crying:
 
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