how are ya'll doing in league ?

lorider · Jul 12, 2014

Diogenes said:
Like I told Pinky the other night. I once said that I would never play league. I made an exception this season to join up with KK9. He's a class act and I'm proud to call him my friend... (and the Lady Pink also of course).
But the mid-season change of rules... after I've paid to join under a different set of rules... creates a great deal of mistrust from me toward the management of UPA. It also reminds me that "I once said that I would never play league"... and this is part of the reason why.
If I'm going to lay out my cash, I'd rather do it betting old school on $10-$50 sets. Besides, I always play better when I have a chance to win (or loose) my money and I can do it on my own schedule. Not much chance of winning anything in league... it seems if you play your a$$ off you will do a little better than breaking even at best... but the LO doesn't even have to pick up a piece of chalk and he does just fine.
Personally... I think that if UPA (or any divisional LO) decides to change the stakes after the season starts, then the extra 4th place $$$ should come out of their take... not ours! It's not really the money as much as the principle of the whole thing.
As for next season.... well I'll have to decide if I even want to. The only reason I would return would be because of the people that I played with (and against) this season in UPA. The players (at least) are mostly a top shelf group of people who balance out the krappy handling and mismanagement that I've seen over and over this season.

to avoid my post being taken out of context i want to say that i agree with both you and pinky. your lo handled this wrong.

with that being said ...i don;t expect any league ...or lo to provide a structure for me to play pool with out being compensated. in other words i don't expect to make money or even get my money back at the end of each session.

i have played in bcapl...apa...napa...and 3 money leagues and come to realize none of them are perfect. they all have issues that i don't care for.

the 2 leagues i enjoy most are napa.....and believe it or not apa.:grin-square:

the reason i enjoy these leagues the most is because of how well the lo's manage them. both of them are guys of character and always try to do the right thing for the league ...and the players. that is not an easy thing to do.

it sounds like ya'll need to find a league with a lo that does things the right way.

PINKLADY · Jul 12, 2014

lorider said:
to avoid my post being taken out of context i want to say that i agree with both you and pinky. your lo handled this wrong.

with that being said ...i don;t expect any league ...or lo to provide a structure for me to play pool with out being compensated. in other words i don't expect to make money or even get my money back at the end of each session.

i have played in bcapl...apa...napa...and 3 money leagues and come to realize none of them are perfect. they all have issues that i don't care for.

the 2 leagues i enjoy most are napa.....and believe it or not apa.:grin-square:

the reason i enjoy these leagues the most is because of how well the lo's manage them. both of them are guys of character and always try to do the right thing for the league ...and the players. that is not an easy thing to do.

it sounds like ya'll need to find a league with a lo that does things the right way.

agreed. and most of us agree that the LO should be compensated at least 20%, and i told the LO this (cause he got a little offended at first). and in his defense, he offered to cover that extra $200 out-of-pocket (to which i said: Y-E-S....you've got till TUE to make it right)

but when the Captains are doing most of the work (score keeping, $$, calls to LO for stats & location/schedule), and their info is not posted timely nor correctly (which is where Diogenes is speaking from), which results in poor strategizing of your team - then all involved get a little disgruntled. now add the payout change mid-session. hence, our request of yáll for solid advice, cause leagues are new to us around here.

this LO came out of nowhere. Diogenes & i have been around these sticks for 25yrs +/+. never EVER heard of this guy....

we need a NEW league in here. or we need to take it into our own hands since our table time is free. or we need to go back to the way things were. it's been 3 9wk sessions of 8B & 9B, and we're never getting to Vegas.

thanks, Lorider!

PS - the LO who also plays on a team, they finished 1st. but he "doesn't take a payout". his assistant/partner plays on a different team. his wife posts the stats. in 9 wks, of 2/wk 8B & 9B, i've seen him & the other 2 present a total of 6hrs.

lorider · Jul 12, 2014

PINKLADY said:
agreed. and most of us agree that the LO should be compensated at least 20%, and i told the LO this (cause he got a little offended at first). and in his defense, he offered to cover that extra $200 out-of-pocket (to which i said: Y-E-S....you've got till TUE to make it right)

but when the Captains are doing most of the work (score keeping, $$, calls to LO for stats & location/schedule), and their info is not posted timely nor correctly (which is where Diogenes is speaking from), which results in poor strategizing of your team - then all involved get a little disgruntled. now add the payout change mid-session. hence, our request of yáll for solid advice, cause leagues are new to us around here.

this LO came out of nowhere. Diogenes & i have been around these sticks for 25yrs +/+. never EVER heard of this guy....

we need a NEW league in here. or we need to take it into our own hands since our table time is free. or we need to go back to the way things were. it's been 3 9wk sessions of 8B & 9B, and we're never getting to Vegas.

thanks, Lorider!

PS - the LO who also plays on a team, they finished 1st. but he "doesn't take a payout". his assistant/partner plays on a different team. his wife posts the stats. in 9 wks, of 2/wk 8B & 9B, i've seen him & the other 2 present a total of 6hrs.

before i replied i wanted to look up some stats.

both my napa and apa lo's play on teams in leagues. i happen to play on teams with both lo's so i have mixed opinions of whether its right or wrong for them to be on teams.

in my opinion leagues that pay out money should not have lo's playing in it.

napa leagues pay money but to me its so small i could care less if the lo's team wins. btw ...his team on wed night is in 1st place but it darn sure ain't due to him with his 50% win record. i have 87% win record on that team and am in 1st place in points with one week to go. :grin-square:

apa does not allow lo's to play with their teams in play offs or higher level tournaments. people say yea but his wins could help them reach play offs. maybe so ...maybe not. the way i look at it is if the team is capable of doing good in play offs with out him..... well they were good enough to reach play offs irregardless of him being on the team.

leagues ...such as bcapl or upa that allow lo's to monetarily gain from playing in nationals and such just set themselves up for lo's to screw the system for their benefit.

PINKLADY · Jul 12, 2014

lorider said:
before i replied i wanted to look up some stats.

both my napa and apa lo's play on teams in leagues. i happen to play on teams with both lo's so i have mixed opinions of whether its right or wrong for them to be on teams.

in my opinion leagues that pay out money should not have lo's playing in it.

napa leagues pay money but to me its so small i could care less if the lo's team wins. btw ...his team on wed night is in 1st place but it darn sure ain't due to him with his 50% win record. i have 87% win record on that team and am in 1st place in points with one week to go. :grin-square:

apa does not allow lo's to play with their teams in play offs or higher level tournaments. people say yea but his wins could help them reach play offs. maybe so ...maybe not. the way i look at it is if the team is capable of doing good in play offs with out him..... well they were good enough to reach play offs irregardless of him being on the team.

leagues ...such as bcapl or upa that allow lo's to monetarily gain from playing in nationals and such just set themselves up for lo's to screw the system for their benefit.

you (and yáll), are very astute - which is why i come to yáll with questions! i've been on the phone since i posted & i'm not done. trying to get all answers, before having adverse reactions.

i've already heard from Rodney - he's clean. two more calls to go....

IT SHOULDN'T BE THIS DIFFICULT (didn't i post this 11 wks ago?)

Jeff Rosen · Jul 13, 2014

Sunday afternoon in a modified elimination APA 9-Ball qualifier in one pool room I ended up getting eliminated after winning two matches, both in actual score even though I got the handicap. I always like to win in actual score.
Then off to the other pool room (RAXX in W Hempstead L.I.) for my straight pool league. After losing my match I was told I needed a makeup with the best player in the league. The handicap turned out to be an embarrassing 150-22 race, LOL. He's that good, and the league operator is an expert at making Handicaps. Well, when my opponent had 70 I had12 and when he had 90 I only needed two with 20. He started running balls, rack after rack. When he did miss he gave me a perfect safety. Well, he had 148 when he had a ball left and I racked the other 14. He got the ball which gave him 149 and almost scratched with the cue ball resting a millimeter from the corner pocket. He then called safety and did what was almost a perfect safety. With all the balls clumped together I saw only one chance, hitting the three ball across the whole table to the far corner. If I miss which I usually do on those long shots he would most definitely get the 150th point. Well, miracle of miracle it went in giving me the win by one point. I shook hands and of course told him he slaughtered me and the handicap was the only way I won. But it was gratifying and I always learn something from a great player.

lorider · Jul 13, 2014

played apa double jeapordy tonight.

got there early and played an 8 ball make up game.

faced a 7 and lost hill-hill.

regular match... faced another 7 in 8 ball. lost hill -hill again .

9 ball i faced another 5 and won 15-5.

for the most part my g/f keeps throwing me against the opposing teams best players since i am the best player on our team even though i am only a 5. still managing a 50 % win record so far .

my 9 ball game is picking up.

last 3 weeks in apa i have faced 2-6's and 1- 5 now. won all 3 with scores of 15-5...15-5...18-2. won my last 4 in a row 9 ball games in napa league.

even though i been winning i got to play better than i have so i don;t embarrass myself in a big open 9 ball tourny i am playing in in a few weeks.

PINKLADY · Jul 14, 2014

UPA - Frank Alvarez

i'd start my own UPA thread, but i don't want to bog-down the Main page -

Frank Alvarez just hung up on me. i asked him if corporate had changed the payouts to allow $200 for a 4th place. he said he'd have to check into it & get back to me. i conveyed that it needed to be by 5pmEST tomorrow, before payouts, please.

he was more concerned w/ WHO gave me his cell phone #.

after explaining that i have many resources, including PROs, but that i wasn't going to give him a name for obvious reasons & that it really wasn't applicable to the valid complaint -

- he informed me that if our 16-60 people were unhappy, then we could all just quit League. if i didn't give him a name, then he wasn't going to respond to my inquiry....

"i'm sorry you feel that way. not a problem, Frank. i'll inform all tomorrow night @ payout, about their CFO."

lorider · Jul 14, 2014

PINKLADY said:
i'd start my own UPA thread, but i don't want to bog-down the Main page -

Frank Alvarez just hung up on me. i asked him if corporate had changed the payouts to allow $200 for a 4th place. he said he'd have to check into it & get back to me. i conveyed that it needed to be by 5pmEST tomorrow, before payouts, please.

he was more concerned w/ WHO gave me his cell phone #.

after explaining that i have many resources, including PROs, but that i wasn't going to give him a name for obvious reasons & that it really wasn't applicable to the valid complaint -

- he informed me that if our 16-60 people were unhappy, then we could all just quit League. if i didn't give him a name, then he wasn't going to respond to my inquiry....

"i'm sorry you feel that way. not a problem, Frank. i'll inform all tomorrow night @ payout, about their CFO."

he hung up on you ?

before he hung up he said ya'll could quit if ya'll were not happy ?

well i know what i would do. :grin-square:

justadub · Jul 14, 2014

PINKLADY said:
i'd start my own UPA thread, but i don't want to bog-down the Main page -

Frank Alvarez just hung up on me. i asked him if corporate had changed the payouts to allow $200 for a 4th place. he said he'd have to check into it & get back to me. i conveyed that it needed to be by 5pmEST tomorrow, before payouts, please.

he was more concerned w/ WHO gave me his cell phone #.

after explaining that i have many resources, including PROs, but that i wasn't going to give him a name for obvious reasons & that it really wasn't applicable to the valid complaint -

- he informed me that if our 16-60 people were unhappy, then we could all just quit League. if i didn't give him a name, then he wasn't going to respond to my inquiry....

"i'm sorry you feel that way. not a problem, Frank. i'll inform all tomorrow night @ payout, about their CFO."

Wow...just wow.

Diogenes · Jul 14, 2014

PINKLADY said:
i'd start my own UPA thread, but i don't want to bog-down the Main page -

Frank Alvarez just hung up on me. i asked him if corporate had changed the payouts to allow $200 for a 4th place. he said he'd have to check into it & get back to me. i conveyed that it needed to be by 5pmEST tomorrow, before payouts, please.

he was more concerned w/ WHO gave me his cell phone #.

after explaining that i have many resources, including PROs, but that i wasn't going to give him a name for obvious reasons & that it really wasn't applicable to the valid complaint -

- he informed me that if our 16-60 people were unhappy, then we could all just quit League. if i didn't give him a name, then he wasn't going to respond to my inquiry....

"i'm sorry you feel that way. not a problem, Frank. i'll inform all tomorrow night @ payout, about their CFO."

I only have one thing to say to Frank Alvarez...

Does it look like I really need the UPA? (and yes I am currently a member)

PINKLADY · Jul 15, 2014

lorider said:
he hung up on you ?

before he hung up he said ya'll could quit if ya'll were not happy ?

well i know what i would do. :grin-square:

"äss!", doesn't even begin to cover it.... i said i had 3 phone calls to make, and i got them done.

Rodney - he's not on the Board, so this doesn't affect his image. and he offered 2 times, to help if needed. i've declined, and thanked him.
LO - saw him Sunday. Diogenes & i have a $1 bet that he won't come out of pocket for $200 4th place.
Frank - his tone turned when i asked him why that $200, didn't come out of the LO's $1485 or his $900...?

i was on the phone all night. 8 have already quit. another 4 from our team (including me) are pending. and then of course, tonight is payout - i'll wait till we've got cash in hand, to open my mouth to everyone else.

who do we know in AZ, that can ring a doorbell & slap-his-face-off?

lorider · Jul 15, 2014

PINKLADY said:
"äss!", doesn't even begin to cover it.... i said i had 3 phone calls to make, and i got them done.

Rodney - he's not on the Board, so this doesn't affect his image. and he offered 2 times, to help if needed. i've declined, and thanked him.
LO - saw him Sunday. Diogenes & i have a $1 bet that he won't come out of pocket for $200 4th place.
Frank - his tone turned when i asked him why that $200, didn't come out of the LO's $1485 or his $900...?

i was on the phone all night. 8 have already quit. another 4 from our team (including me) are pending. and then of course, tonight is payout - i'll wait till we've got cash in hand, to open my mouth to everyone else.

who do we know in AZ, that can ring a doorbell & slap-his-face-off?

i am waiting to hear the outcome of the pay out before i give you any more advice ....that you ain't gonna take. :grin-square:

lorider · Jul 15, 2014

need to vent a little. :grin-square:

went to my money league tonight. they put me up 1st cause i told them i promised my apa team i would be there tonight also.

3-3 race and i lost 3-2. they just refelted the table today and it was fast as hell. i kept getting out of position. soon as i lost i told them i was leaving. i was told i was selected to play twice tonight because we were short handed. told them ok but i need to play again right now.

another 3-3 race and i won 3-1. got used to the speed this time. :grin-square:

haul ass to apa where they throw me as soon as i walk in. 4-4 race.

the 1st rack was a shoot out to the last couple of balls. we each had 2 balls left with 1 of each of ours tied up with the 8 ball in the botttom left corner pocket.

my shot....i get a brilliant idea.

i hit my free ball ...knocking his free ball into the right bottom corner pocket. i purposely draw the cue ball into a position where he can hit his ball but i know he will scratch and also break up the cluster.

when i pocketed his ball every one on my team had a wtf ? look.our 7 asked me what i did that for . i told him just watch my opponent. sure enough he does what i expect and i take bih and run out. our 7 said that was a slick move.:grin-square:

after i broke the 2nd rack it was like the lights went out. i could do nothing right.

missed easy shots... i mean EASY SHOTS. ! ! got out of position way too many times. played wrong patterns and realized it just as soon as i shot a ball.:embarrassed :

can;t believe how i went from playing like a c+ to a d- during the match. i lost the next 4 in a row.

mcsock · Jul 15, 2014

I do not even know how to address this one. I have a couple on my apa 9b team. Hubby is a solid 7, but the wife has never played apa 9 ball but is a 4 in 8b. So they started her as a 4, no problem. She lost her first 2 matches they dropped her to a 3, she lost the match as a 3 and they made her a 4 again. The couple is talking about dropping. It does look sort of odd to me to be raised in skill levels even when you cant win a match.

lorider · Jul 15, 2014

mcsock said:
I do not even know how to address this one. I have a couple on my apa 9b team. Hubby is a solid 7, but the wife has never played apa 9 ball but is a 4 in 8b. So they started her as a 4, no problem. She lost her first 2 matches they dropped her to a 3, she lost the match as a 3 and they made her a 4 again. The couple is talking about dropping. It does look sort of odd to me to be raised in skill levels even when you cant win a match.

you are not the 1st person to encounter this. :grin: its pretty well known new players handicaps fluctuate wildly until they get some matches under their belt.

when i 1st joined i went from a 4 to a 5 to a 4 to a 3 to a 4 all during the 1st session.

in my 2nd tricup i went from a 4 to a 5 to a 4 to a 5 " where i have stayed " winning all my matches that weekend.

since they take into account how many points you average during an inning you can go up even after a loss.

i have also seen players with an 80% win record after the session was over not go up.

justadub · Jul 15, 2014

mcsock said:
I do not even know how to address this one. I have a couple on my apa 9b team. Hubby is a solid 7, but the wife has never played apa 9 ball but is a 4 in 8b. So they started her as a 4, no problem. She lost her first 2 matches they dropped her to a 3, she lost the match as a 3 and they made her a 4 again. The couple is talking about dropping. It does look sort of odd to me to be raised in skill levels even when you cant win a match.

If the hubby is a 7, and has been for any amount of time, he should know that the skill levels fluctuate a lot for new players in a division. His wife isn't any exception. Its unfortunate that the math skews things somewhat in the beginning, but after she plays this session, they should see that she is probably where she ought to be. Numbers usually work themselves out.

PINKLADY · Jul 16, 2014

lorider said:
i am waiting to hear the outcome of the pay out before i give you any more advice ....that you ain't gonna take. :grin-square:

sorry about your game last night -

we got $535. 1st & 3rd ate 8%; we ate 13%. our team's payout was based on # matches played/payed; not points. we had 10 players to run prorata, including Scott Lee who was my alternate.

the LO said he got reamed by Alvarez, and that i'd told him that i got his number from the LO. i clarified that real quick & reminded the LO that i told him i was going to make the call. apparently they didn't discuss the $200 for 4th....i never got a straight answer from him, but he asked me 4 times who gave me Frank's #. the LO reiterated that because UPA's website had posted, he HAD to make the extra payout. the LO & i agreed that the $200 should have come out of Frank's $900 pocket, technically.

the LO said that he's only making 8%, cause balance 25% goes into the Vegas fund, & he's close to having 20 teams for next session in 2 weeks & can qualify for Vegas. he said that he'd makeup the difference on $400 UPA ("up to $1000, cause that's what APA pays"), to cover plane & hotel for a week. i suggested he notify Frank, that he had 20 teams/100 players for 8B, coming to Vegas & to wire $40K - and let us know if it happens....

i'm out. (i'm just a standby alternate) 2 more on our team are out & possibly a 3rd. 2 more from another team (3rd place) are out. 2 other entire teams apparently quit last THU. it'll be interesting in 2 wks. (not that i'll be there!)

PINKLADY · Jul 16, 2014

i know yáll have posted this before, and i remember that most prorate payouts by # matches played. but several people on 3rd place team were upset w/ their Captain's payout last night, cause they'd started running numbers & stats. 7 players. 2 are ranked a 2, and balance are 4's or 6's. the 2's never won. the balance carried the team into 3rd.

payout was $45/ea, by matches played.
if it had been prorated by points, those two 2's, would have only received $25. when the better players realized that those two were getting a 100% increase, they were a little irritated.

so now everyone is asking if they should payout by points. wasn't it DaveM who maybe paid this way?

leto1776 · Jul 16, 2014

Mon night APA travel 8-ball league, I bested a 5,2-2. Lost, the first two games, (both close), won the next two. Second week in a row I bested a higher handicap (I'm still a 3 after a year and half of playing). I'm predicting they'll move me up by next week, which has me conflicted. I've been wanting to improve and get moved up since the start. That was always my biggest goal. However, my other goal has been to win top gun in my sl in my division, and this session has been my greatest chance yet. Not counting Monday, I'm in 2nd place, behind by 4 points. So while I still want to move up, Top Gun is within my reach, whereas if I move up, I won't see the chances happening for a long while.

Tuesday night APA travel 9-ball: my team lost the first 2 matches, won the last 3. Our opponents had all lower numbers (none higher than sl4), which proved to be a challenge for us(five sl5s and two sl3s). I played a 2, and tried to play a little smarter to outrun the handicap. Played a few safeties, hit slower than normal to make up for the high speed of our clubs 9' table, etc. Got a 9-on-the-snap. Yay! Then made a ball on the next break. Double Yay! Started to fade towards the end when I knew I was close. Finished 25-15, for a match score of 13-7. This will bring me above 50% for the session.

Tonight is the risky dink in house 4 team bar rules 8-ball league at the watering hole up the road. I lost last week, thanks to "take what you make on the break." Not really worried about this league, as I get nothing out of it. No prize money, it all goes towards food/drinks at end of session. Just gonna try to have fun with it.

lukemindish · Jul 16, 2014

My team played in the APA for years. All of our numbers steadily went up. We ended up going to vegas. Before we even got to vegas they raised one of our 4s to a 5 without even playing a match. So we couldnt even play our 7.My first match they raised me to a 6 after winning. Needless to say we had to either split the team up or switch leagues. Being that we are all best friends we decided to keep the team together and move to TAP.

Reason for the move is the cap. The cap is 25 versus only 23 in APA. And in tap you move down a skill level. So me being a 6 in the apa I am now a 5 in TAP. Only thing is there is much much more talent in the TAP league. Because better players can keep teams together and keep getting better without being penalized. It was a tough first two sessions for my team. We did awful. It was tough because we always finished at the top in the apa. Well this session everyone is shooting well and its showing.

We are in first place in our division after 5 weeks. This is the last session to qualify for the tournament to send us to nationals so we need to finish in first or second place. We play the second place team tonight and need a big win. The team is doing well and I am doing well too. I am 3-1 this session with my only loss being a hill hill loss. It would be great for me to finish tops in my skill level and my team to finish in first. I will report back with how we do tonight.

how are ya'll doing in league ?

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