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Billiards Digest 14.1 editorial - 10-06-2018, 08:30 PM

Mike Panozzo, the publisher/editor of Billiards Digest has some things to say about recent 14.1 tournaments:

http://www.billiardsdigest.com/showblogentry.php?id=372


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10-06-2018, 08:44 PM

What a crock of shit that article was. I'm not a fan of Charlie Williams, but come on! His tournament is the closest we'll come to a world tournament of 14.1. The reality of it is that nobody will put up the kind of money that WPA demands for a 14.1 tournament, and so this is what we have. What can possibly be achieved by delegitimizing the event? Well, so far there hasn't been an "official" world championship since 2011. Good job there, WPA. I'm sure you have great plans to revive the event? No? It reminds me of my national federation. Their main concern is collecting a paycheck, not promoting the game. I think the main concern of the WPA in this case is not receiving an "inspection fee" (probably in the 3 grand area), and comped trip and hotel, with pay.

I haven't been to any of these events, but by the looks of things, it's a quality event that puts out good videos. This is not a guy in a garage inviting 3 friends and calling it a world championship, and even if it had been, who are the WPA to talk? What have they done, exactly? Not a damned thing. They're happy to let 14.1 die, rather than compromise. I say, to hell with them. If they'd been about standards, as they claim, they'd worked with CW, not against him. If someone else wants to start a rival world championship, then best of luck to them. If it is in fact better, then people will see that, and recognize it. As it is, no one is doing that. If pool did have one, large governing body that was effective in promoting and helping pool grow, I'd be behind it. As it is, it's flailing, ineffective and unable to change with the times.

Things are changing in the pool world. Everywhere people are fed up with the governing bodies doing nothing. People are making their own federations, just to get things done. That's how desperate the situation is. The good people at WPA are going to find themselves out of a job, unless they do something drastic.

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10-06-2018, 08:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post
... His tournament is the closest we'll come to a world tournament of 14.1. ...
Well, no, it's not. The European 14.1 Championship probably has a stronger field (but little prize money?), and the American 14.1 Championship has a much stronger field and about twice the prize money.

You seem to have posted without the benefit of knowledge.


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10-06-2018, 09:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Jewett View Post
Well, no, it's not. The European 14.1 Championship probably has a stronger field (but little prize money?), and the American 14.1 Championship has a much stronger field and about twice the prize money.

You seem to have posted without the benefit of knowledge.
Ah, but the European championship ISN'T a world championship, is it? I'm fully aware of the strength of the field there. More so than posters on here, claiming Thorsten isn't an all time great, because he played so much weaker fields. Yes the European championship is a walk in the park according to them. I bet the Phillipines national championships have fields that could rival any championship known. That's not the criteria by which a world championship is judged. It needs to be open to the world.

If the WPA feels so strongly that other tournaments have better fields, why don't they approach them? They don't because they can't get the money they want. That's what this is all about. Not some grand principle. If there is no money to sponsor straight pool, then it doesn't have to be a professional tournament. It can stay an amateur event. That is much better than no event. Ever heard the expression "perfect is the enemy of good"?

The WPA WOULD have had a good case if there was a rival (better) event to CW's who wanted to use the name. As it is, there is no such event. So what the WPA is all about is actually PREVENTING a world championship from being held. Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of that? The worst thing is, it's not even the only kind of event they're actively sabotaging. 8 ball and 10 ball have suffered the same fates. We'll end up with only 9 ball, if they get their way. The most retarded, coin flippingest, braindead kind of pool is what determines who the best player is! It's a f-ing travesty! The world champions are sometimes barely dry behind the ears. It will be a 12 year old any time now.

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10-07-2018, 01:35 PM

Mike has written what we read so often on this very forum, and what most of us believe to be the truth. Though Charlie's events are tough to win even in the post-sanctioned era of it, they are not world championships.

This doesn't mean that winners of the event are unworthy of our great esteem and admiration, but they are not facing the kind of fields that we associate with world championships.
  
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10-08-2018, 08:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpool_99 View Post

The WPA WOULD have had a good case if there was a rival (better) event to CW's who wanted to use the name. As it is, there is no such event. So what the WPA is all about is actually PREVENTING a world championship from being held. Am I the only one who sees the stupidity of that?
I don’t know the facts with regard to WPA and money and pool tournaments. But I do think that it reasonably can be said that the WPA is not “preventing” a world championship from being held. If Williams were able to come up with the money and the players (what a good promoter does), there would be a world championship in straight pool.

Separately, how is it that a self-described journalist/editor writes this sentence?:

“And you do so at the expense of the players you portend to support.”
  
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10-09-2018, 07:58 AM

yes, i noticed that, too; i think he conflated "profess", "pretend", and/or "purport".


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10-09-2018, 09:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
I don’t know the facts with regard to WPA and money and pool tournaments. ...

“And you do so at the expense of the players you portend to support.”
Charlie got the original 5-year deal with a guarantee of only $25,000 added. This made (so I am told) the promoters of the other world championships really mad since they were adding closer to $100,000 and they had much higher production costs and I believe much lower entry fees.

The last required added money figure I heard for a 14.1 WC was $75,000.

I suspect "pretend" was the portended word. Autocorrect from pertend?


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10-09-2018, 09:37 AM

That article was rather interesting. On one hand you have it bashing Charlie Williams and the other what seems to be praising the WPA. I know Charlie Williams has pissed off a few people but in this sport that we love, is it really anything new?

Honestly, I have no problem with Williams, let him do whatever he wants because I'm sure it's not bothering him. Although I would suggest to him to hire a PR team for betterment of his event.

And as far as the WPA in concerned....well let's just say that they aren't exactly the bastions of good management in the pool world. Same with the BCA who don't even go out of their way to promote much of anything besides their big week/weekend once a year.

Edit : I forgot to add, I don't think those players who show up to Williams' recent events care about prize money. They just do it to play the game they love the most. Ask Earl Erring if he was in it mainly for the money.
  
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10-09-2018, 11:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
... Edit : I forgot to add, I don't think those players who show up to Williams' recent events care about prize money. They just do it to play the game they love the most. Ask Earl Erring if he was in it mainly for the money.
Yes, but the small prize fund these days probably keeps many top players from entering and incurring all the related expenses.
  
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10-09-2018, 12:37 PM

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Yes, but the small prize fund these days probably keeps many top players from entering and incurring all the related expenses.
being on the esports side of things(not the big money games), I knew that was going to be an answer. But you'd be surprised how many gamers enter just to get into a tournament.
  
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10-09-2018, 01:41 PM

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Originally Posted by Positively Ralf View Post
being on the esports side of things(not the big money games), I knew that was going to be an answer. But you'd be surprised how many gamers enter just to get into a tournament.
No, I'm not surprised by that. But it doesn't negate my statement about many top players staying away for money-related reasons.
  
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in with the in crowd - 10-29-2018, 01:48 PM

You have to feel like you belong to win that event - or so they say. Of course this in my view would mean knowing the right people so that you can stay away from the big apple maggot air barrel air b and b corrupt motels. Just a thought here - if you don't miss a ball throughout the whole tournament - you belong. Its not bout who you know and how much $ you have to go in the hole on staying at the plaza. Unfortunately it would seem that there is a heavy byass' towards who you know that is in with the in crowd - that has nothing to do with winning. Under an equal format where all players can get proper rest - it would only make sense that the best player would win - weathe ror not they ( the in crowd) felt he belonged'.
  
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10-29-2018, 03:23 PM

The last required added money figure I heard for a 14.1 WC was $75,000.

[/QUOTE]

Yes Dr. Fedak hope im spelling that right added the money 75k and Charlie kept like 60k of it for himself and didn't add the entire 75k to the prize fund. This is why so many top players do not even mess with Charlie or any Tournaments he is involves in. Sadly a lot of the players that do play Charlie makes deals with because they lack enough funds to compete and hotel room expenses and then he sets the Round Robin brackets accordingly to benefit these players thus helping them and himself to maximize his profits. Charlie has never ever had a blind draw for the 14.1 event and probably no others either.
Also then there is the issue that has been mentioned many times about Charlie giving free hotel rooms to some female players and keeping a room key for himself and sneaking into their rooms while they are sleeping.
The 14.1 needs a new promoter who is honest and to help the game not their Bank accounts.


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