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WHo's your pick? RObles or Hohmann for World Straight Pool Champ
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allprobilliards
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WHo's your pick? RObles or Hohmann for World Straight Pool Champ - 08-19-2018, 09:27 AM

sentimental pick has to be for Robles

  
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08-19-2018, 10:36 AM

Hard to pick any other than Best 14.1 player of planet today. Hohmann.
He is totally other level on 14.1 than 9-ball or other games..


-special man for a special shots-
Straight Pool addict
Do it like Efren: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yrqhJixAmWY One cool rack after opponent safety..
8-ball trickshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Fu...ature=youtu.be
  
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08-19-2018, 11:36 AM

Robles, mainly because his contribution to the pool world has been amazing and he's the hometown hero. That and I have to cheer the fellow Spanish player.
  
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08-19-2018, 06:37 PM

It doesn't matter, playing the in the finals of an event with top talent is an honor.

Hohmann competes more internationally than Robles.

Robles making it to the finals is validation of his talent.
  
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08-20-2018, 09:23 AM

Hohmann understands the nuances of the game and he can run balls as good as anybody.
  
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08-20-2018, 05:01 PM

So who won? Did anybody see the match?


Dan White
  
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08-20-2018, 05:57 PM

Thorsten won. Thorsten missed at 299, gave Tony the opportunity to run 3 racks, but wasn't enough. Saw of Facebook, both were hanging out at Amsterdam today.

Thorsten 1st, Tony 2nd, Mike Fingers and Kiamco 3/4th. Tony beat Mika. Mike Fingers upset beating Archer and Schmidt.


https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/0ac49...1a3d8d7786.pdf

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So who won? Did anybody see the match?


My ego is writing checks that my stroke can't cash.

Last edited by ctyhntr; 08-20-2018 at 06:02 PM.
  
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08-20-2018, 08:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Dan White View Post
So who won? Did anybody see the match?
Here's a stats thread on the round-robin portion of the event: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=479217

And here's one on the double- and single-elimination portions, including an inning-by-inning accounting of the final match: https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=479422
  
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08-20-2018, 09:17 PM

Thorsten Hohmann is an all-time great at 14.1, perhaps a top ten ever in the discipline.

The last three players I can think of that I feel would have been favored over him at 14.1 were Varner, Sigel and Mizerak, none of whom were probably the equals of Mosconi and Greenleaf.

I think Thorsten is mentionable with 14.1 legends like Jimmy Caras, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter and Allen Hopkins.
  
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Seth C.
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08-21-2018, 02:03 PM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Thorsten Hohmann is an all-time great at 14.1, perhaps a top ten ever in the discipline.

The last three players I can think of that I feel would have been favored over him at 14.1 were Varner, Sigel and Mizerak, none of whom were probably the equals of Mosconi and Greenleaf.

I think Thorsten is mentionable with 14.1 legends like Jimmy Caras, Ray Martin, Luther Lassiter and Allen Hopkins.
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_...s_(pool_player)

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth
  
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08-21-2018, 05:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_...s_(pool_player)

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth

IMO, if anyone is going to break Mosconi's records, it'll be Hohmann. He'a a machine.

Lou Figueroa
  
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08-21-2018, 08:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_...s_(pool_player)

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth
Allen was a world beater who got around to beating practically every BCA Hall of Famer you can name. He won the 14.1 World Championship in 1977 and was the runner-up to Ray Martin at the 1978 World Championships. I attended both of those. Allen's personal high run was over 400 and he was a killer for the cash. In addition, other than Irving Crane, Allen was the best defensive 14.1 player of his generation.

Comparisons of those who played primarily straight pool to those of the current generation, who only play it occasionally, are difficult, by I've seen a whole lot of Hopkins and a whole lot of Hohmann up close and I feel they are both legends of straight pool and would have had one hell of a match if their primes had coincided. That said, though, more than a few of the old masters played the patterns better than Hohmann, and Hopkins is one of them. That said, however, few have ever overpowered the table the way Hohmann does, and only Lassiter hit the break shots as hard among the old timers.

Here's a weird thought. Hohmann might be the favorite over Hopkins on Simonis, but Hopkins would have the edge on the old nappy cloths.

Hohmann is worthy of consideration among the all-time greats. So is Allen.
  
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08-22-2018, 12:47 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth C. View Post
Hi Stu -- I've read your thoughtful and educated posts over the past handful of years, and respect your opinions. I don't consider myself an expert on the resumes and credentials of past HOF'ers, legends, etc., but I have some question about your saying that Hohmann is "mentionable" (arguably faint praise) with 14.1 legends among whom you include Allen Hopkins. Is Hopkins even Hohmann's equal, let alone superior, as a 14.1 competitor, when comparing career accomplishments? Not that Wikipedia is a reliable source when it comes to pool records, but here is the page for Hopkins, and it doesn't list 14.1 accomplishments that compare to what I understand Hohmann's to be.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_..._(pool_player) - fixed link

Interestingly, I was recently watching video of the Hohmann/Engert finals of the 2006 World 14.1 championship, for which Tony Robles was one of the commentators. Robles said that he considered Hohmann to be the one of the all-time greats in straight pool at that time, and he added that Hohmann was still quite young and had a lot of his career ahead of him (which, of course, was true, and, of course, Hohmann has won many straight pool events since 2006).

Just wondering if you can elaborate and perhaps educate me about Hopkins . . .

Regards,

Seth
Hi Seth,

Just because you brought it up, currently, I'm the only person updating Wikipedia articles for Pool players and events. Sadly, the information isn't even close to correct; as finding sources for claims in pool seems to be really quite difficult. Anything pre-2000 is very difficult to find.

If anyone has any information that does need updating, send me a message.

On that note, does anyone have any sources for this years competition? I see there are brackets for the round-robin and knockout rounds above, anything else? I could create a tournament for this years straight pool championship, but Wikipedia requires an base amount of secondary sources for inclusion in terms of articles. Does anyone know of any media covering the event?
  
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Seth C.
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08-22-2018, 04:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Vilenski View Post
Hi Seth,

Just because you brought it up, currently, I'm the only person updating Wikipedia articles for Pool players and events. Sadly, the information isn't even close to correct; as finding sources for claims in pool seems to be really quite difficult. Anything pre-2000 is very difficult to find.

If anyone has any information that does need updating, send me a message.

On that note, does anyone have any sources for this years competition? I see there are brackets for the round-robin and knockout rounds above, anything else? I could create a tournament for this years straight pool championship, but Wikipedia requires an base amount of secondary sources for inclusion in terms of articles. Does anyone know of any media covering the event?
Lee -- I didn't intend to demean your work, and thanks for all the effort that you put in on behalf of the game and its followers!
  
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Seth C.
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08-22-2018, 04:23 AM

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Originally Posted by sjm View Post
Allen was a world beater who got around to beating practically every BCA Hall of Famer you can name. He won the 14.1 World Championship in 1977 and was the runner-up to Ray Martin at the 1978 World Championships. I attended both of those. Allen's personal high run was over 400 and he was a killer for the cash. In addition, other than Irving Crane, Allen was the best defensive 14.1 player of his generation.

Comparisons of those who played primarily straight pool to those of the current generation, who only play it occasionally, are difficult, by I've seen a whole lot of Hopkins and a whole lot of Hohmann up close and I feel they are both legends of straight pool and would have had one hell of a match if their primes had coincided. That said, though, more than a few of the old masters played the patterns better than Hohmann, and Hopkins is one of them. That said, however, few have ever overpowered the table the way Hohmann does, and only Lassiter hit the break shots as hard among the old timers.

Here's a weird thought. Hohmann might be the favorite over Hopkins on Simonis, but Hopkins would have the edge on the old nappy cloths.

Hohmann is worthy of consideration among the all-time greats. So is Allen.
Thanks for the reply and info. With this further information, I guess my remaining thought is really my original one -- it doesn't seem that Hopkins' 14.1 body of work is big enough to match up against what Hohmann has built. Hopkins may have been great at it for a limited period of time, but HOF/legend status in sports is generally reserved for those who have reached the top of the hill many times over many years. I know that Hopkins played for many years, but his 14.1 victories (victory?) seem to be limited to the late 70s. Perhaps a little oddly, if you were to tell me that he only competed in major 14.1 events for a few years in the late 70s, I'd be more inclined to see the case for him than if you were to tell me that in the early-to-mid 70s and in the 80s he competed but lost to Miserak, etc.
  
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