What does a cuemaker do when using another cue as a blank? Is there always an asterisk next to the new cue. For example, will it always be “SugarTree using a Schmelke blank” or can it just be called a SugarTree?
Question about blanks?
- Thread starter RichSchultz
- Start date
after SHOCK
Banned
Blanks?? nothing but trouble.
Care to elaborate?
after SHOCK
Banned
No.
(Alright, I misspoke)
What I should have commented, if you're going to build a blank, then go
the extra mile and get a good blank , a very good one.
Arounceville, az member arounceville makes a super cue blank.
Possibly the best I've ever seen (i could be wrong).
Redgardless if I use my own blank or somebody elses, I have to make the cue. When it comes out of my shop it's a Sugartree. I know of maybe a ten full splice makers on the planet, and only three of them sell blanks to other makers. Three. That leaves at most seven makers who's sneaky you see are made using their own blank. Every other maker in the world gets their blanks from one of the three who sell blanks. Of those seven, most are obscure, relatively unknowns. A couple are legendary veneer full splice traditional cue guys. Point being, there just aren't many sneakies in existence made entirely in one shop. So when you see a sneaky for sale how often do you see it listed as the maker's sneaky made with so & so's blank?
When you see a sneaky by Olney, Szamboti, Searing, Diveny, Omen, Scruggs, Nitti, Wayne, Schick, etc., etc., etc., are they listed with an asterisk denoting the blank maker? Of course not. So why should my cues be held to a different standard?
I'll say it again. If it comes out of my shop, it's a Sugartree.
Agreed. Andy is the best full splice maker I have ever seen. I have made several blanks and to be fair they were quite nice. However, it was a lot of trouble, trial & error, countless hours building jigs & setting up machines. Even then I wasted way more wood than I actually got blanks from. With every 4-5 tries I might end up with one blank good enough to use. So I had to decide whether to sacrifice 100sqft of shop space and two very nice saws dedicated to full splices, or just buy blanks when I need to make a full splice. Easy choice. I can't do a better job than Andrew anyway, and I don't have to lose machines & shop space.
Thanks Eric...wasn’t trying to offend. I just don’t know anything about blanks so I came to this forum to learn; I love the one Izzy Molina asked about. As always, your work is top notch. I may buy it as my 3rd SugarTree.
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No worries. I'm not even a little offended
Sorry if I sounded as such. I was just trying to state my point of view clearly without writing a novel lol.As a hobbiest sometimes cue maker I don't see a problem making full splices. It started after buying a full splice blank from a prominent FLA cue parts supplier. There was some 8/4 cocobola & ebony boards here & I just didn't feel good cutting one up into small blanks for cues. Plus after cutting, there is the rest/aging/stress relief wait. Noticed a special on some full splices and decided the cost ($65 at the time) beat the cost of what i would have to sacrifice in lumber on hand. Well the advertised (& pictured) "killer" BE into cocobola was hardly BE at all, and the joinery in the splice was poor/required filler. Of course i called and emailed and never got a response from the owner, so figured the materials were still cheap enough to turn into a practice sneaky. Still shoot with it, lol. but that is what started me splicing my own.
To further make Qbilder's points, if you look at splices from competent makers, it is difficult for someone not really set up for volume to make full splices and not spend almost as much on material, as a full length spliced dowel costs with good materials. Buying them in you are somewhat at the mercy of the maker's choice as to what acceptable grain orientation & run-out is, (strength, stability, and shock related) but the competent guys handle a much greater volume of lumber than most custom builders, and I assume learn better over a shorter period what works well and what is more questionable. Also as noted, the amount of wood "wasted" to make a full splice is shocking. Not in terms that there are actually many failures, but in the length of wood needed for both parts. Actually, there is some extra length to give a couple tries at the perfect joint if necessary. There's some extra length to chuck them after they are glued, and some extra thickness so the points can be dialed in when finishing them. But just on the face of it, it takes 2 relatively long blanks of good wood, to cut out the 8 - 10" of initial joint length and slide them together in to a much shorter assembly. (Joints will also eventually look shorter than they are actually cut at the glue up stage, because they get shorter with diameter reduction as the blank is turned to size) There's at least twice the amount of "feature wood" in a full splice before starting, as in a wrapped short splice; and it has to be obtained in better quality boards to get the longer straight lengths.
I probably wouldn't buy a splice from someone else; but if these prices have not changed much, they are good value just on materials cost. A turned cone also saves at least 2 levels of time waiting for stress-relief. (after glue-up, after first turning)
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=373618
smt
To further make Qbilder's points, if you look at splices from competent makers, it is difficult for someone not really set up for volume to make full splices and not spend almost as much on material, as a full length spliced dowel costs with good materials. Buying them in you are somewhat at the mercy of the maker's choice as to what acceptable grain orientation & run-out is, (strength, stability, and shock related) but the competent guys handle a much greater volume of lumber than most custom builders, and I assume learn better over a shorter period what works well and what is more questionable. Also as noted, the amount of wood "wasted" to make a full splice is shocking. Not in terms that there are actually many failures, but in the length of wood needed for both parts. Actually, there is some extra length to give a couple tries at the perfect joint if necessary. There's some extra length to chuck them after they are glued, and some extra thickness so the points can be dialed in when finishing them. But just on the face of it, it takes 2 relatively long blanks of good wood, to cut out the 8 - 10" of initial joint length and slide them together in to a much shorter assembly. (Joints will also eventually look shorter than they are actually cut at the glue up stage, because they get shorter with diameter reduction as the blank is turned to size) There's at least twice the amount of "feature wood" in a full splice before starting, as in a wrapped short splice; and it has to be obtained in better quality boards to get the longer straight lengths.
I probably wouldn't buy a splice from someone else; but if these prices have not changed much, they are good value just on materials cost. A turned cone also saves at least 2 levels of time waiting for stress-relief. (after glue-up, after first turning)
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=373618
smt
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George Balabushka, who might be the most famous cue maker of all time, did not make his own blanks .
He had access to the worlds best blank makers ever, Titleist, Szamboti, Spain, and Davis.
Every time this topic comes up I think of that.
I also remember that Paul Huebler...who made many, many cues, never used a house cue to make a sneaky. If you called it a sneaky he didn't like it, it was a Huebler Hustler, and all those splices were made in his shop. He even made veneered full splice house cues, which are now very rare.
Palmer mixed it up a bit. Palmer blank? Gus blank? Other?
The OP was just asking about blanks in general, not specifically full splice.
How much and/or whether or not it matters who made the blank varies from maker to maker and cue to cue...and it depends on who is asking and why. So it has more to do with cue buyers and/or collectors than it does with the cue makers IMHO.
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Working a blank you did not make can sometimes be more demanding than one you made yourself. Following behind someone else is not as easy as the uneducated think it is.
I build my own full splices, but still buy and resale blanks from other makers. And I will use one of those blanks if I have one in the wood combination and splice location someone wants. It will say Hightower on the final product either way. The only time I labeled one any different was the last Spain blank I used. I put a trbute to him on it. The blank would have to be something special like that to have anything besides Hightower on it.
If you don't do full splice cues on the regular, then it's a big pain to reconfigure equipment, build jigs, etc. So it becomes a specialty thing. Certainly that would be the most common, but really beyond that there is a whole lot of work that in no way discounts a cue that a recognized maker produces from using a blank. Like Eric says, if it comes from his shop it's a Sugartree all the way.
Now... Sometimes there are conversion cues which are labeled that way -- usually a titlist or something, or sometimes a known cue maker puts together a unique blank and gets credit for doing so. But those things don't undercut a cue in provenance or value.
Now... Sometimes there are conversion cues which are labeled that way -- usually a titlist or something, or sometimes a known cue maker puts together a unique blank and gets credit for doing so. But those things don't undercut a cue in provenance or value.
I have heard the same about repairs, rebuilds, and restorations. Can be more difficult than primary construction for similar reasons, plus the cue is already at finished size etc.
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I have noticed that giving credit to the original maker of the blank has a lot to do with adding or subtracting value based on precieved notions of quality. If a maker uses a Schmelke or a Prathers blank he is way less likely to give credit than if he was to use an arounceville blank. IMO it should make no difference who made the blank if the end product is up to standard. Having said that if you start with a very elaborate blank where a huge part of the look of the cue is in the blank then it is almost a crime not to give credit to the original maker of the blank.
Any time somebody buys a full splice cue from me, they know where the blank came from. I always volunteer that information. Whether it's a Schmelke or Rounceville or just some old house cue, I disclose the origins of the blank. At the end of the day I made the cue so it's my cue, but I also feel it's good practice to acknowledge sources.
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The experience you get by doing this correctly. Is absolutely priceless. WOW. And I couldn't be more serious. I tell people all the time starting out. Buy some blanks. Finish them correctly meaning point alignment. And you'll really learn something.