John Davis Blanks

Ken_4fun · Feb 12, 2015

I understand that Mr. Davis supplied Balabushka some blanks, and I see that folks still actively go after his blanks to take to other cuemakers for them to complete.

My question is why?

Is his blanks so far superior to anyone else?

I have seen some pretty great veneers from many cuemakers today, and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a blank from another maker for me to finish.

I understand why Balabushka did it, but when I see it today, I am a little lost.

Help?

Ken

KRJ · Feb 12, 2015

His name recognition, and his longevity in the biz, selling blanks to bushka and being partners with burton Spain.

Put it this way, if szamboti began only building blanks, would you buy one from him?
Plus, most cuemakers don't make full or shot splice cues, thus not much they can do. Plus, who in this day and age wants to turn down money to work on a cue ? And yes, I'm pretty sure top tier cuemakers who don't need the work would never do it, but for the rest, why the heck not

ideologist · Feb 12, 2015

It's all in a name.

His blanks have been hit and miss in quality lately.

The technique is more widely available now as you stated so you buy a Davis because you want to, plain and simple.

TATE · Feb 12, 2015

Ken_4fun said:
I understand that Mr. Davis supplied Balabushka some blanks, and I see that folks still actively go after his blanks to take to other cuemakers for them to complete.

My question is why?

Is his blanks so far superior to anyone else?

I have seen some pretty great veneers from many cuemakers today, and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a blank from another maker for me to finish.

I understand why Balabushka did it, but when I see it today, I am a little lost.

Help?

Ken

He was trained by Burton Spain, as was Joel Hercek.

Full splice blanks are not very common anymore. They are much harder to build correctly compared to a milled blank (short splice) . His blanks are superior to all other full splice blanks currently available in my opinion. Notice the key words are "full splice' and "blanks". Joel Hercek's are fabulous too but he won't sell you one (and he doesn't like full length handles, which John will make).

I have one cue with his blank and about 6 or so of his raw blanks - they are all still straight, he uses quality wood and veneers - top notch stuff. Everything fits together and aligns "just right".

A cue maker should not get insulted - most will refuse to make you a custom with a full splice unless they aquire the blank. It's just too difficult to set up a jig just to make a couple. It is debatable whether there is any advantage to a full splice besides strength (full splices are much stronger under lateral stress then an "A" joint cue) but if someone prefers a custom full splice cue of the highest quality and doesn't want to wait 10 years to get it, a John Davis blank is a great direction to go.

Chris

alstl · Feb 12, 2015

TATE said:
He was trained by Burton Spain, as was Joel Hercek.

Full splice blanks are not very common anymore. They are much harder to build correctly compared to a milled blank (short splice) . His blanks are superior to all other full splice blanks currently available in my opinion. Notice the key words are "full splice' and "blanks". Joel Hercek's are fabulous too but he won't sell you one (and he doesn't like full length handles, which John will make).

I have one cue with his blank and about 6 or so of his raw blanks - they are all still straight, he uses quality wood and veneers - top notch stuff. Everything fits together and aligns "just right".

A cue maker should not get insulted - most will refuse to make you a custom with a full splice unless they aquire the blank. It's just too difficult to set up a jig just to make a couple. It is debatable whether there is any advantage to a full splice besides strength (full splices are much stronger under lateral stress then an "A" joint cue) but if someone prefers a custom full splice cue of the highest quality and doesn't want to wait 10 years to het it, a John Davis blank is a great direction to go.

Chris

I'm no cue expert but judging by pictures I completely agree. My only question is why he prefers to build the blanks and doesn't build full cues as much if at all. Everybody else who worked with Balabushka sells high dollar cues. I'm sure John Davis cues would bring a good price.

qbilder · Feb 12, 2015

That's a tough question to answer without going deep into it. In a nut shell, John makes a better splice than most and for less money. His shop is built around full splicing. It's what he does. If I were to make a full splice with veneers, I'd have to spend so much time & money in setting up for it that it would cost far more to create than I could ever charge for it. However, once set up, I could make lots of them & eventually reduce the price to something more competitive. But that's not my style. I don't want to limit my cues to being either full splice or simple P/J's. It's much more practical to contract John for a blank. I send him the woods & he sends them back to me spliced. The buyer gets the cue he wants for a whole lot less money than if I made the splice myself. I don't see the issue.

qbilder · Feb 12, 2015

alstl said:
I'm no cue expert but judging by pictures I completely agree. My only question is why he prefers to build the blanks and doesn't build full cues as much if at all. Everybody else who worked with Balabushka sells high dollar cues. I'm sure John Davis cues would bring a good price.

He does make a few cues and does a fine job. The problem is that there weren't many buyers willing to pay for it. Consider a blank is just that, a blank. An entire cue has to be made from that blank, and that's where the real work lies. The splice itself isn't terribly difficult. It's been a staple joint since before electricity, so it's not exactly high tech. The issue is the market. Everybody loves full splices & for whatever reason, cue buyers seem to revere them & the guys who can make them. But just because you appreciate the craft doesn't mean you're willing to pay for it. Sadly, few buyers pay what a good full splice is worth. Tascarella is the only builder I can think of that uses full splice regularly & gets paid fairly for his work.

Simply put, John has the capability & knowledge to make cues. But he makes more by selling blanks. If folks commonly paid the multi-thousand price he would need to create the cues, then he'd be a cue maker instead of a blank maker. When you think of Tascarella, do you think blank maker? Or is he a cue maker?

Prather makes outstanding quality blanks. Would you want them to make your cue? Or would you rather get their blank & have the cue made by your builder of choice? They make cues & are more than capable of converting their own blanks, but they don't. They sell them. They make more money selling the blanks than they do making cues from them.

It's the market that dictates this stuff. I love a bright red Ferrari, but I won't pay for it. Most people won't. That's why there aren't many of them around. My money would be better spent on a Mustang and having it modded by my shop of choice to look & perform like I want. If I were willing to pay hundreds of G's on a car, I'd be interested in the Ferrari. But i'm not, so lucky for me there's no lack of Mustangs.

Chicagoplayer · Feb 12, 2015

John's Blanks-

Ken_4fun said:
I understand that Mr. Davis supplied Balabushka some blanks, and I see that folks still actively go after his blanks to take to other cuemakers for them to complete.

My question is why?

Is his blanks so far superior to anyone else?

I have seen some pretty great veneers from many cuemakers today, and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a blank from another maker for me to finish.

I understand why Balabushka did it, but when I see it today, I am a little lost.

Help?

Ken

___________________________________________

John Davis (of Chicago) blanks are highly sought after for
both his skill and provenance in the cue building community.
His talents lend to the furthering of others skills-
Burton Spain (considered father of the full-splice blank, Chicago)
Balabushka (made infamous by reference in the Walt Disney produced1986, Scorsese directed film, "The Color of Money", Chicago)
Bob Meucci (MS. formerly Chicago)
Currently working with cue builder Tim Prince

John has and continues to make some of the finest blanks out there.

-CP

Bishop · Feb 12, 2015

Not to diminish anything but if you reduce the principle and apply it to another area of the cue it might make a little more sense.

For example we would never say "and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a tip from another maker for me to finish".

Obviously due to time and cost most cuemakers aren't in the business of making their own tips. I know its not the same thing but its the same idea.

No matter how nice a blank is it still has to be fitted, constructed and finished.

Ken_4fun · Feb 12, 2015

qbilder said:
That's a tough question to answer without going deep into it. In a nut shell, John makes a better splice than most and for less money. His shop is built around full splicing. It's what he does. If I were to make a full splice with veneers, I'd have to spend so much time & money in setting up for it that it would cost far more to create than I could ever charge for it. However, once set up, I could make lots of them & eventually reduce the price to something more competitive. But that's not my style. I don't want to limit my cues to being either full splice or simple P/J's. It's much more practical to contract John for a blank. I send him the woods & he sends them back to me spliced. The buyer gets the cue he wants for a whole lot less money than if I made the splice myself. I don't see the issue.

I will try to notice if they are full splice. I think the only full splice cue I had commissioned were titlist cues.

Thanks for your time and explaination.

Ken

Princecues · Feb 12, 2015

Besides his history of making blanks, and name recogniton, and cue makers that he has supplied in the past, his quality of blanks and craftsmanship is outstanding. Why wouldn't people be after his blanks is a better question.

His shop really is built around building full splice blanks, and I think he is doing his best work ever. A lot of cuemakers won't or can't build fullspliced blanks because of the waste involved and techniques used. All his blanks are built in squares in the traditional old school fashion. There is a ton of hand fitting and tricks used to achieve the end results that is best left to someone as proficient in it as he is.

I don't know why any cuemaker would be offended, frankly, converting or building on a quality made, time tested, blank of Johns. John and myself collaborate on cues all the time (Davis-Prince cues). I have been building cues for almost 20 years and I still am impressed with his work and the pains he goes through building his blanks every time I'm in his shop. He does build complete cues as well as making blanks, and does a great job on them too.

Getting a traditional full spliced John Davis blank, for a fraction of what I think they should be priced at, is a terrific way to go and the quality is, by far, worth every penny. I think that is why they are sought after, and why people choose to use his blanks.

Besides all of that, John is a great guy to deal with! He always goes above and beyond what is asked of him and has helped a lot of people along the way. You couldn't ask for a nicer, easier to deal with cuemaker than John Davis. I have been very fortunate to be able to spend quite a lot of time with him, working with him and his blanks, and I would recomend him and his blanks to anyone looking to have a full splice cue made.

KCRack'em · Feb 12, 2015

I had Leon Sly finish a blank for me. I bought it based on reputation and also because it caught me eye. It wasn't a wood or veneer combo that I would have come up with, yet I fell for it and now have a fantastic cue. It's a long splice that I kept wrapless. The cue attracts people like moths to a light!

I think putting a blank in a builder's hand sped up the build time as well.

DaveK · Feb 12, 2015

Sneakies rule ! The John Davis is the 6th from the right (no joint collar, in between a Hills pau ferro and a Prather ebony each with black joint rings) :thumbup: The newest, a Blackcreek bubinga, is not in the photo:sorry:

Dave

Double-Dave · Feb 12, 2015

Ken_4fun said:
I understand that Mr. Davis supplied Balabushka some blanks, and I see that folks still actively go after his blanks to take to other cuemakers for them to complete.

My question is why?

Is his blanks so far superior to anyone else?

I have seen some pretty great veneers from many cuemakers today, and frankly, I would be insulted if I built cues and you came to me with a blank from another maker for me to finish.

I understand why Balabushka did it, but when I see it today, I am a little lost.

Help?

Ken

To answer your question from my point of view, having bought one of John's blanks a few years
ago and having it completed by Bryan Mordt.

I knew going in that Prather would probably build a blank with slightly better veneer work and,
I guess one could argue a better blank in general, allbeit not THAT much better.

What motivated me more then anything else to go with John was the fact he has the history and
name to his blanks. I guess it is a little hard to put into words, maybe with an analogy:
Is an Aston Martin a "better" car then a Honda or Toyota? I would say no, yet the Aston is
way more desireable to me at least. Hand crafted by highly skilled workers who have been doing
this same work for decades.

gr. Dave

TATE · Feb 12, 2015

alstl said:
My only question is why he prefers to build the blanks and doesn't build full cues as much if at all.

There is a lot more involved with cue building than blank making. John builds a nice cue but was far as being a full blown custom order type, inlays etc., there is a lot to it and he had a full time job while he was making blanks on the weekend.

John and I even discussed the issue when he first started back. I told him my opinion at the time that there was more of a need for his blanks and there was an instant market from cue makers if he had the desire to sell to them.

If he were to ask me now, I would probably suggest focusing more on the cue making, now that his name is so well established. Maybe stop selling blanks altogether to create demand for his cues and work on his other skills, like decorative inlays, finishes etc etc.

alstl · Feb 12, 2015

TATE said:
There is a lot more involved with cue building than blank making. John builds a nice cue but was far as being a full blown custom order type, inlays etc., there is a lot to it and he had a full time job while he was making blanks on the weekend.

John and I even discussed the issue when he first started back. I told him my opinion at the time that there was more of a need for his blanks and there was an instant market from cue makers if he had the desire to sell to them.

If he were to ask me now, I would probably suggest focusing more on the cue making, now that his name is so well established. Maybe stop selling blanks altogether to create demand for his cues and work on his other skills, like decorative inlays, finishes etc etc.

I didn't realize he had a full time job. There is a short list of people who made blanks for George Balabushka and an even shorter list of people who are still around. I would think a simple wrapless cue with one of his phenomenal forearms would be an easy sell for a nice price.

Chicagoplayer · Feb 12, 2015

My apologies Tim!

Princecues said:
Besides his history of making blanks, and name recogniton, and cue makers that he has supplied in the past, his quality of blanks and craftsmanship is outstanding. Why wouldn't people be after his blanks is a better question.

His shop really is built around building full splice blanks, and I think he is doing his best work ever. A lot of cuemakers won't or can't build fullspliced blanks because of the waste involved and techniques used. All his blanks are built in squares in the traditional old school fashion. There is a ton of hand fitting and tricks used to achieve the end results that is best left to someone as proficient in it as he is.

I don't know why any cuemaker would be offended, frankly, converting or building on a quality made, time tested, blank of Johns. John and myself collaborate on cues all the time (Davis-Prince cues). I have been building cues for almost 20 years and I still am impressed with his work and the pains he goes through building his blanks every time I'm in his shop. He does build complete cues as well as making blanks, and does a great job on them too.

Getting a traditional full spliced John Davis blank, for a fraction of what I think they should be priced at, is a terrific way to go and the quality is, by far, worth every penny. I think that is why they are sought after, and why people choose to use his blanks.

Besides all of that, John is a great guy to deal with! He always goes above and beyond what is asked of him and has helped a lot of people along the way. You couldn't ask for a nicer, easier to deal with cuemaker than John Davis. I have been very fortunate to be able to spend quite a lot of time with him, working with him and his blanks, and I would recomend him and his blanks to anyone looking to have a full splice cue made.

__________________________________________

I'm sorry I neglected to mention you work with John, Tim!
Love the way your cues hit!

-CP

asiasdad · Feb 12, 2015

This is my truth..

I bought a cue made by Bobby Hunter with a John Davis blank.

The cue played exceptionally well.

The veneer points were not remotely even
and the veneers look like they were cut by
a man with diabetes on blood sugar below 70.
very shaky.

Needless to say, I have no interest in obtaining any
future cues with John Davis' name attached to it.

cuesblues · Feb 12, 2015

TATE said:
Full splice blanks are not very common anymore. They are much harder to build correctly compared to a milled blank (short splice) . His blanks are superior to all other full splice blanks currently available in my opinion. Notice the key words are "full splice' and "blanks". Joel Hercek's are fabulous too but he won't sell you one (and he doesn't like full length handles, which John will make).

That's the main thing, they are full splice blanks with cool veneers.
Also, my Davis blank cues are terrific players...like fancy sneakies with veneers

Speaking of Davis blanks, Eric, if your are listening...

jazznpool · Feb 12, 2015

asiasdad said:
This is my truth..

I bought a cue made by Bobby Hunter with a John Davis blank.

The cue played exceptionally well.

The veneer points were not remotely even
and the veneers look like they were cut by
a man with diabetes on blood sugar below 70.
very shaky.

Needless to say, I have no interest in obtaining any
future cues with John Davis' name attached to it.

The Davis blanks without exception are greatly oversize and any uneven front points solely reflects the skills, equipment and care of the cuemaker who turned the blank! What is sad (but makes full sense here at AZB) is that people malign the blank maker for cuemaker botched builds! I must also say that Bob Hunter is more than capable of a great blank conversion.

John Davis Blanks

AzB Silver Member

Support UKRAINE

I don't never exaggerate

AzB Gold Mensch

AzB Silver Member

slower than snails

slower than snails

AzB Gold Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

I'm not argumentative!!!!

Still crazy after all these years

Attachments

Developing cue-addict

AzB Gold Mensch

AzB Silver Member

AzB Gold Member

Banned

cue accumulator

Superior Cues--Unchalked!