Update on the Des Moines pool scene

Mike B. · May 19, 2009

Richardson said:
No seriously. For years in league play we've all been pretty good. We've had some success in team tournaments and what not. But you wanna know the sad truth. And this is something Athens said to me, thats been on my mind for weeks now.

"Pool players in Des Moines are not really that good" (hes talking about the top players guys)

"The best players here need weight from the best players in any other town"

And you know what, he is right. Ive been watching alot of live streams from other towns, they have alot of people who play great. Thats one of reason Scott Frost moved to AZ was because he had no competition here. That is one of the reason why Don McCaughey doesnt play anymore.

/rant off

A perfect example of this is when Big Dog's first opened and Chad, Jamie and Josh were coming to the Sunday night tournament all the time. Plus Rory was here and Jesse and a few others made appearances. With those players around regularly, I believe that alone raised the local players' games a ball or two minimum. They had to play better if they wanted to keep up.

Now that they don't really come around too much, the "top" level in Des Moines is at a stand still, so to speak. The top players only have to play well enough to beat each other and that is only once or twice during a tournament. There aren't too many other players challenging them that have the capability to do so.

pooljunkie75 · May 19, 2009

Richardson said:
I dont know if you noticed, but i dont try to make people like me. I say what needs to be said and i tell it like it is. If people accept that than we can be friends, when they dont they, well ............... i think you know.

One thing i know about matching up is, once you give up too much weight its hard to get it back. Specially if its close. I mean how can i give a spot to a guy who was up 4 in a 7 ahead set, and went out side talking trash about how i suck and he will play me forever. Then he comes back in and cant play anymore and he misses three 7 balls and a 9 to lose the set. He got himself all pumped up and forgot he had to win the set first to get even.

Edit: who did i quit winner on ?

I like you Jason. Even though you were hitn on my girl when we met.....dick! Lol. Most of everything I have learned about pool came from you and your brother.

Richardson · May 19, 2009

mikeyfrost said:
47 pages, after I said I quit 20 times, I just mighta mistakenly read your post as you stepping up and wanting to play something on the big table...no kiddie box, something where you need a stroke to move around the table. That sounds super good to me chap.

Frost, take a course in reading sir. No really, maybe take up a night class or something.

Richardson · May 19, 2009

Mike B. said:
A perfect example of this is when Big Dog's first opened and Chad, Jamie and Josh were coming to the Sunday night tournament all the time. Plus Rory was here and Jesse and a few others made appearances. With those players around regularly, I believe that alone raised the local players' games a ball or two minimum. They had to play better if they wanted to keep up.

Now that they don't really come around too much, the "top" level in Des Moines is at a stand still, so to speak. The top players only have to play well enough to beat each other and that is only once or twice during a tournament. There aren't too many other players challenging them that have the capability to do so.

Yep, Frost did light a spark up some people behinds which is cool.

mikeyfrost · May 19, 2009

Richardson said:
Frost, take a course in reading sir. No really, maybe take up a night class or something.

I have been thinking about getting my doctorate to match my bachelors and masters degrees. I'm gonna have all this spare time and Iowa State is pretty close.

Dr. Frost sounds terriffic.

Big Dog · May 19, 2009

You said it man. It isn't the same as it used to be, back when all the quad city guys came down every week. That was awesome! They pushed everyone. I have noticed how different Des Moines is than Fargo. Maybe it's because we have to stay indoors 9 months out of the year because we would freeze to death, but it is very different up there. Everyone pushes each other out of pride, more than anything. I used to play Oly races to 9 all the time for nothing more than pride. If I didn't win, I would hear about it on league night from Rory or whoever. The same went for everyone up there. It was worse to lose over nothing than to lose money almost. At the end of the day though, we were all friends. Around here, seems like nobody can get along long enough to do something like that, or even put a nationals team together. If we put a team together of the best players in the area, it wouldn't work. They tried before, and it seemed like they couldn't put ego aside and just play. It seems like everyone has a personal issue with someone else. It's hard to build anything off of that! Every guy in this town wants to win, without a doubt. So, why can't people put aside their personal issues and work to win a national title as a team?

It doesn't have to be the way that it is!!

Spimp13 · May 19, 2009

Big Dog said:
You said it man. It isn't the same as it used to be, back when all the quad city guys came down every week. That was awesome! They pushed everyone. I have noticed how different Des Moines is than Fargo. Maybe it's because we have to stay indoors 9 months out of the year because we would freeze to death, but it is very different up there. Everyone pushes each other out of pride, more than anything. I used to play Oly races to 9 all the time for nothing more than pride. If I didn't win, I would hear about it on league night from Rory or whoever. The same went for everyone up there. It was worse to lose over nothing than to lose money almost. At the end of the day though, we were all friends. Around here, seems like nobody can get along long enough to do something like that, or even put a nationals team together. If we put a team together of the best players in the area, it wouldn't work. They tried before, and it seemed like they couldn't put ego aside and just play. It seems like everyone has a personal issue with someone else. It's hard to build anything off of that! Every guy in this town wants to win, without a doubt. So, why can't people put aside their personal issues and work to win a national title as a team?

It doesn't have to be the way that it is!!

I would have to agree about the ego thing or personal issues with others which unfortunately seems to go hand in hand with pool especially here in Des Moines. I see several of the "great players" get very egotistical with each other and other players as well. I told my friends if I ever got that good to beat the piss out of me if I acted like that which they agreed almost before I finished the sentence lol. When Pet, Geoff, myself, Denny, Ron, and Keith won BCA State in 04 there was great team chemistry there. Sure it wasn't the high level tournament, and it helped that we were friends to begin with, but there was no ego or personal problems there and that was huge with helping us succeed. I agree Jon it would be nice to see a team from here like that but I do not see it happening or being that strong of a team with all the problems involved.

mikeyfrost · May 19, 2009

The most competitive and fun tourney at Big Dogs is the Friday Night 10 ball tourney, 10 ball is just a better game on the bar table to play plus you dont have to work the next day. Even with alternating break 9 ball has the break contest feel to it along with the same guys dominating it couple that with 2 months ago the tourney was getting 50-60 ppl a week now they roughly pull 30 in. That changes the money at the end of the rainbow quite a bit. Like most big tourneys are moving to 10 ball, why are we behind the curve?? That's one of the issues with the tourneys.

As far as the egos go, people would rather play with who they like and lose then win and hate every second of it. Teams can only have a limited amount of people on it, what happens to the people who dont make the big team and for the second team. Then while these two teams are duking it out some fun loving team thats been together 10 years strolls through and beats both of them. Chemistry is the biggest factor on most league teams. It's not all about talent, especially in short races.

Things are the way they are for lots of reasons. Everyone has their reasons. I sure do have mine. That's how it is and pretty sure that's how it will always be. The past isnt just the past it influences the present and the future. Til the past get resolved their is no future.

Cheessehead · May 19, 2009

hello mike

Mike B. said:
Just to clarify...it was tournament 9 ball, on brand new cloth where you could break 8 mph and make 3 balls.

You still ran me over ,tourney or not, you played great.the conditions were the same for me as well. hope to see you this weekend

p.s. I wasn't trying to mislead anyone about mike and playing.I figured people would talk to him and they'd know it was a tourney. sorry if I mislead anyone.

Big Dog · May 19, 2009

Spimp13 said:
I would have to agree about the ego thing or personal issues with others which unfortunately seems to go hand in hand with pool especially here in Des Moines. I see several of the "great players" get very egotistical with each other and other players as well. I told my friends if I ever got that good to beat the piss out of me if I acted like that which they agreed almost before I finished the sentence lol. When Pet, Geoff, myself, Denny, Ron, and Keith won BCA State in 04 there was great team chemistry there. Sure it wasn't the high level tournament, and it helped that we were friends to begin with, but there was no ego or personal problems there and that was huge with helping us succeed. I agree Jon it would be nice to see a team from here like that but I do not see it happening or being that strong of a team with all the problems involved.

The reason that there has been national championship teams out of Fargo is just that, chemistry. Like you said, hard to picture that happening around here. It's really too bad, because there is potential for it. I don't know if it will ever happen, unless someone like Dustin or Mike Bennett get on a team from here. That might make the difference. I would like to try it anyway!

Big Dog · May 19, 2009

mikeyfrost said:
The most competitive and fun tourney at Big Dogs is the Friday Night 10 ball tourney, 10 ball is just a better game on the bar table to play plus you dont have to work the next day. Even with alternating break 9 ball has the break contest feel to it along with the same guys dominating it couple that with 2 months ago the tourney was getting 50-60 ppl a week now they roughly pull 30 in. That changes the money at the end of the rainbow quite a bit. Like most big tourneys are moving to 10 ball, why are we behind the curve?? That's one of the issues with the tourneys.

As far as the egos go, people would rather play with who they like and lose then win and hate every second of it. Teams can only have a limited amount of people on it, what happens to the people who dont make the big team and for the second team. Then while these two teams are duking it out some fun loving team thats been together 10 years strolls through and beats both of them. Chemistry is the biggest factor on most league teams. It's not all about talent, especially in short races.

Things are the way they are for lots of reasons. Everyone has their reasons. I sure do have mine. That's how it is and pretty sure that's how it will always be. The past isnt just the past it influences the present and the future. Til the past get resolved their is no future.

All I'm sayin is that for Des Moines to be represented at the national level in a team event, people need to put aside the personal garbage that has gone on long enough. It's time to clean it up.

ykndoit · May 19, 2009

National level? Hell, The super stacked team that went to Atlantic(yes thats in Iowa!!!) 1 or 2 years ago w/ whitey on it got waxed!!!

mikeyfrost · May 19, 2009

Big Dog said:
All I'm sayin is that for Des Moines to be represented at the national level in a team event, people need to put aside the personal garbage that has gone on long enough. It's time to clean it up.

Some might say that starts with the pool room. Here's an idea for you. Have Big Dogs sponsor these super teams. In other words they pay no league(Home and away games) or membership fees. Travel is covered for out of town events(Vegas, State tourneys, and Midwest). Give them free shirts and try to schedule some practice times. In return Big Dog's gets the trophy and a portion of the winnings. It's hard enough to get people to play in leagues. That would be a good start.

This was a common practice where I was where bar's or pool rooms sponsored teams. In Vegas you hear about this often as well. If you don't feel like you are a part of something bigger than yourself the incentive to buy in will never be there.

ykndoit · May 19, 2009

It IS the summer time.

DM people like to be outside during the summer, sitting on their camaro's hood thats parked in their front lawn with their shirt off and hightop sneakers on without socks, drinking busch light, saving the cans for gas money so they can drive to the fair( no need to save money for a ticket to get in cuz we just hop the fence back near the cows off of dean!)
wrecking a $20-$45 pair of jeans or going to the doctor to get 4-5 stitches from jumping over the barb wire fence makes a whole lot more sense than paying to get in!

DM is behind the curve about 4-5 months. Remember people, we are just a small town with big dreams. The sooner we all realize this, the better off everyone will be.

Cheessehead · May 19, 2009

action

Just want to clarify something,Jeff and I are not trying to high roll anybody. we just want to bet enough to make interesting, but not so much that we can't afford to lose. I figure at 500 a set people can pool their money and play 2-3 sets or more. from what I've heard is jamie thinks he is stealing and wants to bet 2000-3000 a set, well that is not the price of pool I can afford.I'm betting my own and I don't have a stake horse so I don't think the game is going to happen

we work just like everybody else.And please stop calling us " great players". Jesse, Chad V., Jamie B., Scott Frost those are great players. We are shortstops. we are capable of playing great for short periods of time but last I checked so were Jamie f,mike a, phil, jody, jason c, and mike b ( sorry if I forgot somebody) If someone has ever seen me win a high dollar set of pool ,They've got dinner on me when I get to town. call anyone in chicago they all think I'm a sweetheart to gamble with. the mexicans call me pescado...?

TheMadScientist · May 19, 2009

team play

Chemistry is the biggest factor on most league teams. It's not all about talent, especially in short races. --Mikey Frost

This is very true. You have to get along with the rest of your team if you want to win. Five professionals who don't like eachother might lose to a solid masters team that has good team chemistry.(in a 25 game format) It is hard to calculate the true effects of chemistry on a team, but do not doubt that there is often a large impact.

pooljunkie75 · May 19, 2009

mikeyfrost said:
Some might say that starts with the pool room. Here's an idea for you. Have Big Dogs sponsor these super teams. In other words they pay no league(Home and away games) or membership fees. Travel is covered for out of town events(Vegas, State tourneys, and Midwest). Give them free shirts and try to schedule some practice times. In return Big Dog's gets the trophy and a portion of the winnings. It's hard enough to get people to play in leagues. That would be a good start.

This was a common practice where I was where bar's or pool rooms sponsored teams. In Vegas you hear about this often as well. If you don't feel like you are a part of something bigger than yourself the incentive to buy in will never be there.

Actually Mike, my team that won State last year was sponsored by a little hole-in-the-wall bar called Toads. The only thing we payed for was weekly league play. Hell, the owner even gave us $50-$100 just for drinks. He didn't pay for travel or rooms, but our shirts and entry fees were totally paid for. It was a pretty sweet deal really.

mikeyfrost · May 19, 2009

Cheessehead said:
Just want to clarify something,Jeff and I are not trying to high roll anybody. we just want to bet enough to make interesting, but not so much that we can't afford to lose. I figure at 500 a set people can pool their money and play 2-3 sets or more. from what I've heard is jamie thinks he is stealing and wants to bet 2000-3000 a set, well that is not the price of pool I can afford.I'm betting my own and I don't have a stake horse so I don't think the game is going to happen we work just like everybody else.And please stop calling us " great players". Jesse, Chad V., Jamie B., Scott Frost those are great players. We are shortstops. we are capable of playing great for short periods of time but last I checked so were Jamie f,mike a, phil, jody, jason c, and mike b ( sorry if I forgot somebody) If someone has ever seen me win a high dollar set of pool ,They've got dinner on me when I get to town. call anyone in chicago they all think I'm a sweetheart to gamble with. the mexicans call me pescado...?

Always a gentleman. I think between the bet and the fact no one really knows how to match up with you you're in a tough place. Eventhough Jamie is up on you, Mike Bennett beat you, Phil Tendrill beat you etc...none of that is going to be good enough to actually get you a game. Pescado means fish if you guys were wondering.

The fact of the matter is, it's going to take some pure old fashioned gamble to kick things off. There's 10 ppl who know you and theyre givin 10 different lines on you. The wires that are flying in are almost like you can be 2 different people. I still think by Thursday if it's on Jamie's radar he is gonna figure something out and come play. Keep the faith!

mikeyfrost · May 19, 2009

pooljunkie75 said:
Actually Mike, my team that won State last year was sponsored by a little hole-in-the-wall bar called Toads. The only thing we payed for was weekly league play. Hell, the owner even gave us $50-$100 just for drinks. He didn't pay for travel or rooms, but our shirts and entry fees were totally paid for. It was a pretty sweet deal really.

Congrats that must have been a nice win to get. Is the team stacked or just some good players that have a good time...i bet it's the latter.

We're talking next level though. There are 100s of teams that make it to nationals that all have a legitimate chance to win. We're talking a whole new level of sponsorship. If you want new results you gotta do something new.

ykndoit · May 19, 2009

Cheessehead said:
Just want to clarify something,Jeff and I are not trying to high roll anybody. we just want to bet enough to make interesting, but not so much that we can't afford to lose. I figure at 500 a set people can pool their money and play 2-3 sets or more. from what I've heard is jamie thinks he is stealing and wants to bet 2000-3000 a set, well that is not the price of pool I can afford.I'm betting my own and I don't have a stake horse so I don't think the game is going to happen we work just like everybody else.And please stop calling us " great players". Jesse, Chad V., Jamie B., Scott Frost those are great players. We are shortstops. we are capable of playing great for short periods of time but last I checked so were Jamie f,mike a, phil, jody, jason c, and mike b ( sorry if I forgot somebody) If someone has ever seen me win a high dollar set of pool ,They've got dinner on me when I get to town. call anyone in chicago they all think I'm a sweetheart to gamble with. the mexicans call me pescado...?

Since I got hometown pride and I don't want you to come to Des Moines for nothing, I'd at least like to give you some gas money to get back home and I'd just like to play you a fair game, I'm up for some abuse.

I don't want to insult you and play for something inferior to your standards, but I will play you for $50/$100 a set. Minimum 2 sets,(you have option of raising the second set if you lose the first one) race to 7,you give me 3 games. (If you need to check my speed, just ask anyone on here and they will tell you that you should be a lock to win).

If anything, leave this offer till the last minute if you can't get a "real" game.

:help: Someone please step up and play Tom so I don't have to insult him and play him for coupons! :duck:

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