Question About Tight Pockets

cjr3559

cjr3559

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I’m surprised shelf depth hasn’t been brought up as a toughness factor.

Not sure the precise shelf depth between GC 4.5” vs 5 or 5.5” pockets, but I’ve played on both my own GC5 TE with 4.5” pockets and GC3 room tables with larger (I think to be 5”) pockets, and there’s a big difference in toughness. At least to me.

As far as what’s the shelf depth between the different GC pocket sizes I have no idea.
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cjr3559 said:
I’m surprised shelf depth hasn’t been brought up as a toughness factor.

Not sure the precise shelf depth between GC 4.5” vs 5 or 5.5” pockets, but I’ve played on both my own GC5 TE with 4.5” pockets and GC3 room tables with larger (I think to be 5”) pockets, and there’s a big difference in toughness. At least to me.

As far as what’s the shelf depth between the different GC pocket sizes I have no idea.
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No one is questioning that shelf depth is one of the three main factors resulting in a pocket’s tightness, but it is the only one of three factors that cannot be altered, so you basically have to look at altering one of the other two variables (pocket mouth width and pocket facing angle) to make your pockets play harder or easier.

However, by tightening your pockets up in terms of lengthening sub rails and cushion rubbers or thicker facings, will automatically result in a decrease in the pocket’s shelf depth.
 
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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, I did some measuring and it appears I am right at 142 degrees.

So, I assume my table would be considered about average in terms of pocket tightness then?

r/DCP
 
jimmyco

jimmyco

NRA4Life
Silver Member
Above average 9' Diamond.
 

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CESSNA10

CESSNA10

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
The pockets on my Gold Crown IV are 4.5 inches. Side pockets are 4.75 inches. Whilst 4.5 corner pockets are not considered really tight my table sure seems to play unforgiving.

What could be causing this? Is it the angle the rails are cut at? The facings? Something else?

r/DCP
Click to expand...

4.5 on the corners are pretty tight
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
Ok, I did some measuring and it appears I am right at 142 degrees.

So, I assume my table would be considered about average in terms of pocket tightness then?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
The combination of 142° and 4 1/2 inch corner pockets is a table that would play considerably tighter than average. Even more so as time passes since it was last recovered with new cloth. When you add in your 4-3/4 inch side pocket openings, even tougher.

I hope you are at least a B level player, or this would be a very discouraging table to play/practice on. For lesser than a B level player, many on here including myself might even say it’s to the point of not being of any benefit to your game.
 
jtompilot

jtompilot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
The pockets on my Gold Crown IV are 4.5 inches. Side pockets are 4.75 inches. Whilst 4.5 corner pockets are not considered really tight my table sure seems to play unforgiving.

What could be causing this? Is it the angle the rails are cut at? The facings? Something else?

r/DCP
Click to expand...

I had a GC4 for 10-12 years. The normal is around 5” corners. The pool hall I got the table from just added extra facings to tighten them to 4.5”. I considered them to play fairly. A 4.5” Diamond plays a bit tougher because the shelf is so deep. I recommend you put your big boy pants on and work on your fundamentals and game.

Just for reference I normally play on 4.125 or 4.25 corner Diamonds. When I get to play on a 4.5 table, I’m free wheeling. That doesn’t mean I never miss but I just go for it more often.
 
Island Drive

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
Here's my take.

Any tighter, it would not allow the game of 9 or 10 ball to be played in a run out fashion.

When tighter, your unable to move your cue ball ''around'' properly.

What's most different to me, is the pocket.

The facings are now rail facings, not added shims, they play different, they react differently depending on how hard the facing is hit and what part of ''it'' is hit. I tend to use slight inside to ''enlarge'' the pocket area, and pound the cue ball to position, not spin it to position.

Any time you cut a ball down a rail, with outside spin and speed, the player ''Must'' NOT catch the long rail ''at all'' going in.

In the old dayz, those shims would deaden the rotating obj ball, ''differently depending on the shim etc''.... and allow it to enter the pocket at a higher speed, this play condition is ''completely'' different and ''consistent''. Makes a table play ''real''. I like it....
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jtompilot said:
I had a GC4 for 10-12 years. The normal is around 5” corners. The pool hall I got the table from just added extra facings to tighten them to 4.5”. I considered them to play fairly. A 4.5” Diamond plays a bit tougher because the shelf is so deep. I recommend you put your big boy pants on and work on your fundamentals and game.

Just for reference I normally play on 4.125 or 4.25 corner Diamonds. When I get to play on a 4.5 table, I’m free wheeling. That doesn’t mean I never miss but I just go for it more often.
Click to expand...

Funny thing abut current online play the ghost tournaments, the home tables that people are proud to own with tight pockets for practice are now making it harder to compete with players that have larger pockets/easier playing pickets. Someone with large pockets can have a several ball advantage over someone that setup their home table for tougher practice vs normal play.
 
Chili Palmer

Chili Palmer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Cuebuddy said:
Age and condition of the cloth and how clean the balls are can have an affect on how tough the table plays also. I have Simonis from 2007 and when the balls get dirty my Diamond is brutal.
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Not a diamond but my table does that a too. My cloth is only a couple of years old but it's been used and abused and when the balls are dirty it kicks most things out of the corners with a firm or harder draw shot - unless it's dead center - any side rail or tit and it's over. Pisses me off.
 
pocket

pocket

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
hang-the-9 said:
Funny thing abut current online play the ghost tournaments, the home tables that people are proud to own with tight pockets for practice are now making it harder to compete with players that have larger pockets/easier playing pickets. Someone with large pockets can have a several ball advantage over someone that setup their home table for tougher practice vs normal play.
Click to expand...

Yet the tournament winners in the tourneys I've played in are usually playing on tight pocket tables. :shrug:
 
hang-the-9

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
pocket said:
Yet the tournament winners in the tourneys I've played in are usually playing on tight pocket tables. :shrug:
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That might mean that they were that much better players. All things being equal aside form the equipment is the key, as well as enough games to even out any variables past just table toughness. I'm sure an A playing on easy equipment will score about equal over 20 racks as an A+ on tough equipment. I doubt anyone would pick tight pickets when winning is on the line given the choice, which is really the test to do for what equipment you want to play on to compete to win, vs practice to get better. As they say "the race does not always go to the strongest or the fastest but that is the way to bet".
 
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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
Here's the angle Chris is talking about. A facing angle of 142° (yellow lines) is pretty common. For comparison, parallel facings (white lines) would be angled 135°.

pj
chgo

View attachment 552457
Click to expand...

Okay, I finally got my Protractor from Amazon today. But the EXACT spot that you put the protractor isnt quite clear to me. If it goes right there on that little "Point" I dont really have a sharply defined point like the diagram.

I assume, therefore, my measurement wont quite be exact?

r/DCP
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
Okay, I finally got my Protractor from Amazon today. But the EXACT spot that you put the protractor isnt quite clear to me. If it goes right there on that little "Point" I dont really have a sharply defined point like the diagram.

I assume, therefore, my measurement wont quite be exact?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
See the diagram and instructions here:

Table Difficulty Factor (TDF) document

That might help,
Dave
 
Patrick Johnson

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
DrCue'sProtege said:
Okay, I finally got my Protractor from Amazon today. But the EXACT spot that you put the protractor isnt quite clear to me. If it goes right there on that little "Point" I dont really have a sharply defined point like the diagram.

I assume, therefore, my measurement wont quite be exact?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
Just hold the protractor’s legs flush against the cushion nose and the pocket facing - it doesn’t matter if they form a sharp point or not.

pj
chgo
 
C

ChrisinNC

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Patrick Johnson said:
Just hold the protractor’s legs flush against the cushion nose and the pocket facing - it doesn’t matter if they form a sharp point or not.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
An easier way in my opinion - the long arm of the protractor is held flush against the cushion nose all the way down the cushion to the pocket. The rectangular shaped dial is then adjusted to correctly match and sit flush against the top part of the pocket facing from the mouth point back towards the rear of the pocket facing. Then just read the measurement on the protractor dial.
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
4.5” is more than adequate when the pool ball ball is only 2.25”.
That’s twice as wide as a pool ball. It only makes you try harder.
5” corner pockets is like playing on a 7’ table when you’re on a 9’.
 
jay helfert

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
ChrisinNC said:
Yep, that should work. To get a pretty good estimate with just a tape measure, you could just take your mouth measurement at the front of the pocket which you’ve already stated is 4-1/2 inches, then take the measurement across the throat of the pocket, 2-1/2 inches back from the front points of each facing where it meets the cushion rubber. If that measurement at that point is 4 inches or less across, then you have a pocket facing angle of at least 142+, which is considered tougher than average.
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Chris, what would be the facing angle if the pocket opening is 4.5" and it remains 4.5" at the back of the pocket? I call this a straight cut pocket. I am asking because this is the way many pool tables had their pockets cut when I was first learning to play.
 
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