Pre-Stance Routine ... A New Approach

dr_dave

dr_dave

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FYI, I just posted a new video demonstrating the Pre-Stance Routine ... A New Approach. Here it is:


The topics covered (with YouTube time-stamps) include:

1. Alternative Approaches (0:41)
2. New Pre-Stance Routine Approach (1:32)
3. Head Alignment and Drop (2:38)
4. Getting Down Low (3:20)
5. Clearance and Comfort (3:39)
6. Align Grip Hand and Cue (4:37)
7. Going Backwards to Learn (4:59)
8. Using Mirrors to Help (5:28)
9. Stand Up if You Over Adjust (5:47)
10. Looking Far and Low (6:04)
11. Advantages of New Approach (6:34)
12. Disadvantages of New Approach (7:15)

Please check it out and let me know what you think. It seems like the stance has been a hot topic on the forum recently.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
D

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
very good
i have stumbled into the same conclusion

but i think this reinforces my resolve
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ok, here comes your critic:)

Are you seriously going to use and recommend that waggle? That is the goofiest looking thing I've ever seen. If Shane himself did that, he'd be laughed out of the room by the entire counter. Hell, I thought my stance was goofy over the years, but yours takes the cake!

Also, watch out for those aiming gurus, who recommend coming into the shot line from the side. You fired shots at them. Good luck ducking:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
 
iusedtoberich

iusedtoberich

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
To expand on that, a stance is supposed to be the most natural thing in the world to a pool player. Like walking. You just do it.

Now, of course it takes time to build to that. But in your video, every single scene your stance looks forced, uncomfortable, and unnatural. Its fine to show ways to construct the stance, and even work backwards from the CB like you did in one scene. But your video is obviously for beginners. A beginner should have an end goal of where the player gets in their stance is like tying their shoe, don't even think about it. You don't convey that message. Maybe have a clip of pro's getting into their stance to reinforce the end-goal.

IMO as always:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
 
T

tuffstuff07

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Stance will be uncomfortable once you start making changes to it. After awhile it should become more comfortable over time and repetition.
 
BeiberLvr

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
Also, watch out for those aiming gurus, who recommend coming into the shot line from the side. You fired shots at them. Good luck ducking:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
Click to expand...

Just a quick comment.

Watch any video of any CTE user, and it's quite obvious that their heads are on the shot line from the beginning. It's the body that is typically offset. This is very apparent in this old Stan video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDOnLiDh-dg

The evidence is also available in any Tyler Styer video (self proclaimed user of CTE).
 
B

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I agree that the waggle looks awkward. I will say I do something similar on non-standard shots but not all the time. I bet with time the waggle would disappear as a player got more confident with their approach to the shot line. It may be worthwhile to incorporate a waggle when making an adjustment to your stance and then just let it naturally go away.

Either way -- it's interesting to consider.
 
Andrew Manning

Andrew Manning

Aspiring know-it-all
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
To expand on that, a stance is supposed to be the most natural thing in the world to a pool player. Like walking. You just do it.
Click to expand...

This is very wrong. With enough practice it can look extremely natural, but a step-wise approach to getting into stance accurately and consistently, as Dr. Dave outlines in the video, should be a very intentional and conscious part of a player's technique until an effective process is so ingrained it happens without conscious thought. Even then, habits can drift over time, and intentional tuneups are a necessary part of continued development in the game, and each tuneup will require making the process conscious (forcing it) for a time.
 
Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Dr. Dave isn't properly aligned. His shoulder is out to the side and his elbow not behind his head. The elbow behind the head is an important tool to ensure consistency on long shots, or indeed any shot that needs accurate cueing. In snooker, the chest and chin will also support the cue, thus making the cue go absolutely straight. Here is a picture to illustrate the principle:

edit: Thought my post got deleted, but I posted it in another thread. LOL.
 

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Matt_24

Matt_24

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dr_dave said:
FYI, I just posted a new video demonstrating the Pre-Stance Routine ... A New Approach. Here it is:


The topics covered (with YouTube time-stamps) include:

1. Alternative Approaches (0:41)
2. New Pre-Stance Routine Approach (1:32)
3. Head Alignment and Drop (2:38)
4. Getting Down Low (3:20)
5. Clearance and Comfort (3:39)
6. Align Grip Hand and Cue (4:37)
7. Going Backwards to Learn (4:59)
8. Using Mirrors to Help (5:28)
9. Stand Up if You Over Adjust (5:47)
10. Looking Far and Low (6:04)
11. Advantages of New Approach (6:34)
12. Disadvantages of New Approach (7:15)

Please check it out and let me know what you think. It seems like the stance has been a hot topic on the forum recently.

Enjoy,
Dave
Click to expand...

Great info, Doc!

Your stance should enable you to comfortably "freeze" in place until the shot is made or missed, and the cue ball comes to a complete stop. Once I was able to complete that exercise easily, my game jumped several balls. I was truly SOLID.

For me, the shorter the distance between the cue ball and object ball, the higher the stance. The LONGER the shot (distance between cue ball and object ball), the lower I go.
 
Snooker Theory

Snooker Theory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Straightpool_99 said:
Dr. Dave isn't properly aligned. His shoulder is out to the side and his elbow not behind his head. The elbow behind the head is an important tool to ensure consistency on long shots, or indeed any shot that needs accurate cueing. In snooker, the chest and chin will also support the cue, thus making the cue go absolutely straight. Here is a picture to illustrate the principle:

edit: Thought my post got deleted, but I posted it in another thread. LOL.
Click to expand...

I in no way am trying to knock or critique Dr. Dave or his fundamentals, and I am not an expert in fundamentals, just read a few books on the topic and mostly from the world of snooker.

The picture you posted looks much more correct in terms of what I understand the stance should look like.
attachment.php


I have always tried to implement what you mentioned, and that may be more difficult for Dr. Dave being a tall gentleman.

Naturally, before ever working on my stance, it looked something like Dave's before implementing a more inline technique(accomplished through a more traditional snooker stance with my back leg locked which seems to rotate my shoulders more into the shot getting everything inline as you mentioned).

Stephen Hendry and Steve Davis were both taller guys 6'1'' & 6'2", do you mind if I ask how tall you are Dave?
StephenHendry-Banner.jpg

vUY2Lnr.jpg
 
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nine_ball6970

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Straightpool_99 said:
Dr. Dave isn't properly aligned. His shoulder is out to the side and his elbow not behind his head. The elbow behind the head is an important tool to ensure consistency on long shots, or indeed any shot that needs accurate cueing. In snooker, the chest and chin will also support the cue, thus making the cue go absolutely straight. Here is a picture to illustrate the principle:

edit: Thought my post got deleted, but I posted it in another thread. LOL.
Click to expand...

I would pay good money to look like that when down on a shot.
 
Dave-Kat

Dave-Kat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thank you once again Dr. Dave. Needed that reinforcement. I have been adjusting and making some changes to my stance as well as PSR since my neck injury ( broke C3 vertebrae in 2010 ) mysteriously put me off the table ( C3,4,5,6 disc issues) from late July until October and have had to make adjustments in order to play again.

I have been concentrating more on properly getting aligned standing back off table on my aiming line on OB and then walking into, dropping in squared with body/stance where I am comfortable without too much pain. Much like your 'new' PSR but I need to work hard on keeping my eyes on OB throughout stroke.

At first It felt a bit awkward but am getting a bit more comfortable and I am gaining confidence and it's starting to flow more freely.

Have a good day:thumbup:

-Kat,
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

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Gold Member
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iusedtoberich said:
Ok, here comes your critic:)
Click to expand...
I expected no less. :grin-square:

iusedtoberich said:
Are you seriously going to use and recommend that waggle?
Click to expand...
Yes. I have been for the last year or so, and it has helped me, per the advantages mentioned in the video. Did you actually watch the video to the end this time?

iusedtoberich said:
That is the goofiest looking thing I've ever seen. If Shane himself did that, he'd be laughed out of the room by the entire counter. Hell, I thought my stance was goofy over the years, but yours takes the cake!
Click to expand...
I don't care what people think about the way I look. I just care about results.

iusedtoberich said:
Also, watch out for those aiming gurus, who recommend coming into the shot line from the side. You fired shots at them. Good luck ducking:grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:
Click to expand...
It really doesn't matter how you bring the cue down into the stance as long as the bridge and cue end up in the right place. I personally can do this more effectively if I bring the bridge hand and cue straight down and forward during my "laser-guided" drop.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
iusedtoberich said:
To expand on that, a stance is supposed to be the most natural thing in the world to a pool player. Like walking. You just do it.
Click to expand...
I "just do" mine also. And it now comes naturally, after I practiced with it some. Now, when I demonstrate individual steps for the camera, it might look a little awkward and non-flowing at times.

BTW, there are a lot of things in pool I had to change and practice to make them my "new natural" things (e.g., keeping the elbow still during the stroke into the ball, getting low in my stance, opening my stance to eliminate neck issues, positioning my head in my personal "vision center" position, keeping the grip relaxed on power shots, pulling the cue back slowly on the backstroke, pausing slightly before smoothly accelerating, etc!). Just because something doesn't come "naturally" doesn't mean your shouldn't do it.

iusedtoberich said:
Now, of course it takes time to build to that. But in your video, every single scene your stance looks forced, uncomfortable, and unnatural.
Click to expand...
It doesn't feel forced, uncomfortable, or unnatural. And it has made my aiming and alignment more effective. And again, I don't care what other people might think about how it looks.

iusedtoberich said:
Its fine to show ways to construct the stance, and even work backwards from the CB like you did in one scene. But your video is obviously for beginners. A beginner should have an end goal of where the player gets in their stance is like tying their shoe, don't even think about it. You don't convey that message.
Click to expand...
I disagree. I'm not a beginner, and I've changed my pre-stance routine per the info in the video. I practice what I preach, and all of the changes I've made in my game the last few years have definitely helped raise my game.

Regards,
Dave
 
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dr_dave

dr_dave

Instructional Author
Gold Member
Silver Member
BasementDweller said:
I agree that the waggle looks awkward. I will say I do something similar on non-standard shots but not all the time. I bet with time the waggle would disappear as a player got more confident with their approach to the shot line. It may be worthwhile to incorporate a waggle when making an adjustment to your stance and then just let it naturally go away.

Either way -- it's interesting to consider.
Click to expand...
You might be right, but I've been waggling for a while now (about a year). It helps me place my feet, aim, and align everything perfectly before I drop straight down. This has helped. It also helps me slow down and spend more time "aiming while standing" than I used to, which has also helped.

Regards,
Dave
 
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