Pro Pool Players Can't Make A Living!

Can someone tell me when there was EVER a profession for pool players? Everybody on here talks like pool has died...did it ever live? Except for a handful (literally, like maybe ten players), there has never been a profession with a viable income. Any "pro tour" you want to name, there were what--maybe 100 players? And I doubt more than a handful made a living for the three or four years it ran. Most "pro" players pay their bills via gambling or most often with a day job, taking time off to play big events, and gambling or playing amateur tournaments on the weekends. Some scrape by as a "house pro", with a meager income that usually requires tending bar, running tournies and/or giving lessons. Pool is and has always been an "avocation", not a "vocation". It would be cool to have a profession for pool players here in the U.S., but it hasn't ever exisited. If someone can point out an example, I'm all ears and will stand corrected.

jburkm002 said:

Is it that the pros can't make a living or there is no money in pro pool? So if all the pros packed up and said screw it there is no money in this profession. What would happen?

Click to expand...

A bunch of other players would come. The only thing the pros could do would be start their own union and tour and run it themselves...wait, that already happened.

Agreed

West Point 1987 said:

Can someone tell me when there was EVER a profession for pool players? Everybody on here talks like pool has died...did it ever live? Except for a handful (literally, like maybe ten players), there has never been a profession with a viable income. Any "pro tour" you want to name, there were what--maybe 100 players? And I doubt more than a handful made a living for the three or four years it ran. Most "pro" players pay their bills via gambling or most often with a day job, taking time off to play big events, and gambling or playing amateur tournaments on the weekends. Some scrape by as a "house pro", with a meager income that usually requires tending bar, running tournies and/or giving lessons. Pool is and has always been an "avocation", not a "vocation". It would be cool to have a profession for pool players here in the U.S., but it hasn't ever exisited. If someone can point out an example, I'm all ears and will stand corrected.

Click to expand...

Thank You!
Finally it's been said.

Oh , I'm just going to throw one reason out . A reason I noticed being on the road doing live streaming for 18 months. I'm going to say that some of the top shelf players have the wrong attitude ,do things that are counterproductive ,things that work against any efforts done by the good guys , and things that just don't make good business sense. I did say some players not all.In one word attitude . Other than that I think handicapped tournaments make great players OK with being average and lazy .Step it up .
These are just my crazy thought s and are probably about as off as my game is right now.

Just ask yourself where Ultimate 10 ball went. Then read the letter the sponsor wrote for discontinuing the tournament. I can't find it now. That was discussed here before. What happened to the Pro Tour? There have been serious efforts with money behind it. I personally think pool is fighting a demographic shift. Just 5 or 6 years ago, it was difficult to get on one of the 3 tables at a private club I belong to on a Saturday morning. In addition, there were many spectators. The only players that show up now are in a small group who play there every Saturday and a couple of real old timers who can only watch these days.

There are many reasons but the main reason is interest in this sport has waned.

Al

Any professional sport needs to have viewers to buy tickets or watch on TV so the teams can sell advertising time.

In 2014, pool is not a spectator sport. I'll say it again so it sinks in. Pool is not a spectator sport. People (i.e., a critical mass of people) are not willing to buy tickets to a tournament or watch it on the Internet or TV.

No ticket sales + No ad revenue = tournament players playing for each other's entry fee.

Care to explain what players do wrong? I have heard that a lot. Don't need names just examples.

Chuck Fields said:

This has been discussed ad nauseum. But to give you a synopsis, scumbags, liars, con men and greed are usually the top answers. :thumbup:
Chuck

Click to expand...

Lest we not forget.... "lack of public interest in the game itself".

Comparing pool to golf as the OP did is foolish because the level of public interest isn't even comparable. People LOVE playing golf. Most people don't go near pool halls nevertheless frequent them enough to become hooked by the game. And because of that massive interest in golf, millions upon millions of people will play AND watch golf just the same. That kind of audience brings with it ad revenue and contributions from companies with deep pockets.

Pool just isn't there and it likely never will be. I think most people turn on the tv and, if they're lucky enough to catch pool on ESPN 8 or whatever, they'll either change it immediately OR watch it just long enough to think "this is too slow / this is too easy" (depending on who they're watching). Etc..

Combine that with the fact that so many people are just out to get theirs and screw everyone else... it makes for a really dark future for the game itself.

Well.......

West Point 1987 said:

Can someone tell me when there was EVER a profession for pool players? Everybody on here talks like pool has died...did it ever live? Except for a handful (literally, like maybe ten players), there has never been a profession with a viable income. Any "pro tour" you want to name, there were what--maybe 100 players? And I doubt more than a handful made a living for the three or four years it ran. Most "pro" players pay their bills via gambling or most often with a day job, taking time off to play big events, and gambling or playing amateur tournaments on the weekends. Some scrape by as a "house pro", with a meager income that usually requires tending bar, running tournies and/or giving lessons. Pool is and has always been an "avocation", not a "vocation". It would be cool to have a profession for pool players here in the U.S., but it hasn't ever exisited. If someone can point out an example, I'm all ears and will stand corrected.

Click to expand...

Actually in the 1980's there was the Pro Billiards Association for men and women. There were tournaments every other week all up and down the East Coast. There were so many tournaments, you could pick and choose.

Gas was cheap, rooms were cheap, and all the illegal business money was flowing. Lots of tax free money floating around from drugs, card games, prostitution....all kinds of money to gamble with. Well the government put their nose into all those businesses and put a stop to it.

Times were great...had Miller, Bud, Coors beers into pool along with Marboro and Camel cigarettes as sponsors. Yeah...everything bad into pool but it was good. :thumbup:

There is still money to be made in pool, but you can't sit around and wait for the money to come to you. You have to go out and get it. :wink:

Here is the letter I referred to.

http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/10780-ultimate-ten-ball-championships-bridges-burned/

I have thought about how I fit into the equation to improve the circumstances. First, I will go out and play and have fun doing it. I will encourage people I run into and I have helped a few young people start. I will continue to go to tournaments as dead money and have fun with it. I guess the bottom line is to play and hope the contagion lights a fire under others.

Al

TwinkleToes said:

The answer to my questions are as obvious as gravity but because I am curious about the opinions of others, I would like to put these questions up for your consideration.

Why is it that the professional pool players make so little money?

Why are the purses for...even the big tournaments, so small compared to golf for instance?

Why is it that unless you are in the top 10 players in the world or so, you are questioning how much longer you can afford to travel around and play in tournaments?

If a golf touring pro finishes about 25th in a weekly tournament, he is going to make about $50,000.00 to $60,000.00. The winner of a tournament is going to make about $1,200,000.00.

Mika Immonen finished 4th at the Hard Times Open last month and made $900.00. Dennis Orcullo won the tournament and made $3,000.00.

This is beyond sad! By the way, I don't have a whole lot of doubt that I am going to infuriate some people when I give my opinions but...I'll live with that!

Opinions please!

Click to expand...

All sports are just entertainment. Pool has proven to be a worthless product. The jury is no longer out, it does not sell.
So what are you asking? Why can't I make a living doing balloon animals it isn't fair.

krupa said:

Any professional sport needs to have viewers to buy tickets or watch on TV so the teams can sell advertising time.

In 2014, pool is not a spectator sport. I'll say it again so it sinks in. Pool is not a spectator sport. People (i.e., a critical mass of people) are not willing to buy tickets to a tournament or watch it on the Internet or TV.

No ticket sales + No ad revenue = tournament players playing for each other's entry fee.

Click to expand...

I agree. I was in Vegas last week for the BCA tournament. The pro tournament was there to watch for free. I saw tons of empty seats all week.

Take any sport/hobby. There will be some that play only, some watch only, some play and watch.

Whatever the percentage split, for a sport/hobby to have professionals earning a living, you need A LOT of interested people. Not enough people interested in pool right now.

I have no data to back this up. Only what I have read on here. Aren't snooker players making a living. What's different?

jburkm002 said:

I have no data to back this up. Only what I have read on here. Aren't snooker players making a living. What's different?

Click to expand...

May not be as good as it once was but they have people who want the product so it sells.
I was at the world championships and it was sold out for all three weeks.
They used to have it on TV for many hours every week, but I should add much of the rest of their TV was old reruns of american shows. I was in England and prime time TV had old Odd Couple reruns.

It is also cultural, they regard Snooker much like we do baseball, it has a long history. Pool could never in a million years garner that kind of status with Americans.

poolguy4u said:

Actually in the 1980's there was the Pro Billiards Association for men and women. There were tournaments every other week all up and down the East Coast. There were so many tournaments, you could pick and choose.

Gas was cheap, rooms were cheap, and all the illegal business money was flowing. Lots of tax free money floating around from drugs, card games, prostitution....all kinds of money to gamble with. Well the government put their nose into all those businesses and put a stop to it.

Times were great...had Miller, Bud, Coors beers into pool along with Marboro and Camel cigarettes as sponsors. Yeah...everything bad into pool but it was good. :thumbup:

There is still money to be made in pool, but you can't sit around and wait for the money to come to you. You have to go out and get it. :wink:

Click to expand...

I remember the PBA very well...how long did it last? How many of its members reliably cashed high enough to pay the bills? That's my point...you mention the illicit side money; that's not a profession, that's illicit money. I'll admit that was probably the best there was...the IPT was another one that had promise, but we know where that ended up.

ronscuba said:

I agree. I was in Vegas last week for the BCA tournament. The pro tournament was there to watch for free. I saw tons of empty seats all week.

Take any sport/hobby. There will be some that play only, some watch only, some play and watch.

Whatever the percentage split, for a sport/hobby to have professionals earning a living, you need A LOT of interested people. Not enough people interested in pool right now.

Click to expand...

Ron,


Was there as well. Only the most "interesting" matches had a full crowd. Sat and watched some 10 ball with the Ko's playing. SVB as well. I love the game of pool. Been playing for over 55 years. Truthfully, I'm a lousy spectator.

Not wanting to put words in anyones mouth but .... There must be a reason Mr. Griffin decided to make the "pro" events free. Perhaps the cost of erecting a sealed environment with it's attendant security costs were more than the potential income from the spectators alone. Who knows? Even Allen Hopkins went "free"!

Sure hope the events are held again next year!

Lyn

How does pool compare to other activities such as darts, backgammon, chess, shuffleboard or curling?

I like watching great or even good pool online. There are so many videos on utube now that I don't have a desire to pay to watch a live stream. The great shots are fun to watch, but so is the thrill of the competition of a close match of those who are not professionals.

PBT was going good in the early-mid 90's I thought.
I went to see a few events in Vegas, San Diego and LA. They were packed.
Sadly, the head of PBT RUINED it.
Burnt it to the ground while he made money off it.

A lot of problems! Mostly spacious in nature. Fans are global and players. Infrastructure nonexistent. Getting fans And players together is huge problem.

Live events at major arena's that can accommodate the masses. Not ballroom boxing venues.

All major sports have infrastructure! Snooker has a beautiful center. Location is irrelevant! Field of dreams! Build it and they will come.

Once infrastructure then players can invest. Leadership from WPA lacking is another issue! Need way to tax members and gain leverage. Issue monopoly on equipment sanctioned for events annually with heavy fees. Get best 128 players under exclusive contracts. Jordan can't play in CBA only NBA! Why Ralf play WPA + non WPA events?

Bca in America is not a leader! CSI is a leader! Big difference between them!

Demographics are there given cost of equipment. But, stigma of the pool hall keeps them away! No mother is bragging about son at the pool hall and the youth movement is dead!

Parents take kids to sporting events that they like! No one is taking them to a billiard parlor filled with smoke! Needs a image overhaul! Add glamorous venues attire and transform the sport from its wildwest image to the rat pack image of Mosconi and Lassiter!

I could go on And on but these are the major issues.

Kd


Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk