Pro Pool Players Can't Make A Living!

This has been discussed ad nauseum. But to give you a synopsis, scumbags, liars, con men and greed are usually the top answers. :thumbup:
Chuck

I think one factor could be lacking of viewers.Pool need viewers.I believe pool is not considered as sports by some.Pool is not something you'll see all the time on tv.It is also something not being advertised well unlike other sports.i could be wrong but i think audience is the one who will bring the money to the tournaments.If you think about tennis,golf,basketball or baseball,how many viewers do they have?The viewers are not willing to spend a dime to watch pool.I hope someday all of us can watch this on tv for free.
Another factor could be less sponsorship.If pool cannot get more viewers,you will also lose interest from sponsors.Again,i could be wrong.This is just my opinion.

TwinkleToes said:

Chuck...so what would you do to change the situation to make it better? When it was discussed in the past, were most in agreement?

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Bonus Ball had some good ideas, but it was a weird new game with special balls and was bad. Add to the fact the folks behind it shat where they ate..... it flopped.
With the current image of pool among the general population, there will be very few corporate sponsors willing to take a risk. In fact the last big one was RJ Reynolds in the 90s. So in the heat of tobacco company lawsuits and Don Mackey screwing the players, that failed. There was a liquor sponsor for womens pool for a while. Canadian Club..... With ads about hard drinking women, that wasnt a good image from the get go. IPT was destined to fail as it was headed by the biggest con man in this country. People couldnt or wouldnt or didnt want to see what was coming. All they saw was a payday, so all the eggs go into one basket and Trudeau stole the basket.

At the end of the day theres two main schools of thought. Some people think the scumbag hustler/gambler image would sell and think thats what the public craves. Others try to clean it up, and that is an uphill climb because the stereotype came from somewhere..... :sorry:
So personally I think if the game were cleaned up and packaged in a professional way it could get some money behind it from outside of the industry. But its a lot easier said than done.
Chuck

Post

Chuck Fields said:

This has been discussed ad nauseum. But to give you a synopsis, scumbags, liars, con men and greed are usually the top answers. :thumbup:
Chuck

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Very sad but what u stated is mostly true...American pool cut it's own throat....we need a governing body for pool like Europe has for snooker, that will separate em quickly and American pool needs to stop letting the armatures compete in pro calibre events.
A qualifier that the ppl in the competition have to qualify to be able to compete with the big dogs.... Put all the big dogs in a pen at a long race and let the cream rise to the top'

My hats off to mark griffin for his efforts to create a pro circle of players... Now we just need a big money sponsor to stand on his side.





Rob.M

TwinkleToes said:

The answer to my questions are as obvious as gravity but because I am curious about the opinions of others, I would like to put these questions up for your consideration.

Why is it that the professional pool players make so little money?

Why are the purses for...even the big tournaments, so small compared to golf for instance?

Why is it that unless you are in the top 10 players in the world or so, you are questioning how much longer you can afford to travel around and play in tournaments?

If a golf touring pro finishes about 25th in a weekly tournament, he is going to make about $50,000.00 to $60,000.00. The winner of a tournament is going to make about $1,200,000.00.

Mika Immonen finished 4th at the Hard Times Open last month and made $900.00. Dennis Orcullo won the tournament and made $3,000.00.

This is beyond sad! By the way, I don't have a whole lot of doubt that I am going to infuriate some people when I give my opinions but...I'll live with that!

Opinions please!

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Pool is not a popular spectator sport in this country - and nothing will change that fact.

As to why, that is somewhat complicated.

"Supply and Demand" - look it up.

Dale

TwinkleToes said:

Chuck...so what would you do to change the situation to make it better? When it was discussed in the past, were most in agreement?

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IMO on line gambling is the only solution, it should be allowed, and make public broadcasting companies get some of the action by streaming live free pool ! just like the Brits..

dontlitethat said:

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Very sad but what u stated is mostly true...American pool cut it's own throat....we need a governing body for pool like Europe has for snooker, that will separate em quickly and American pool needs to stop letting the armatures compete in pro calibre events.
A qualifier that the ppl in the competition have to qualify to be able to compete with the big dogs.... Put all the big dogs in a pen at a long race and let the cream rise to the top'

My hats off to mark griffin for his efforts to create a pro circle of players... Now we just need a big money sponsor to stand on his side.


Rob.M

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We're trying that approach; www.AmericanBilliardClub.com hoping to have 64 qualifying clubs in 2015.

It's a matter of ROI (return of investment) for sponsors. If there was money to be made in pro pool, then there would be a pro tour. Pretty much as simple as that. Now, can a pro tour be developed and branded to sell to the public? Yes, like snooker has done in England. It's just going to take the right entity to make that happen. Don't hold your breath.

There has been some outside sponsorship to the game i.e. Bahdi, IPT, Bonus Ball, and Camel. But for different reasons, it hasn't worked out. The industry needs to step up in a unified effort to develop a tour which would benefit everyone. There have been a few such as Mark Griffin, Joe T, Greg Sullivan and Barry Behrman, trying to keep pro pool alive but with it's intricate issues, it's more of a labor of passion than sound business decisions. Although, the American Rotation is player funded and independent of outside sources of revenue. So, it can have the time to develop and attract additional sponsorship in the future.

The answer to my questions are as obvious as gravity but because I am curious about the opinions of others, I would like to put these questions up for your consideration.

Why is it that the professional pool players make so little money?
1. Not enough tournaments with big payouts. Sports needs more competent promoters to do this.
2. Pool has very little commercial gain to offer any potential corporate investments.

Why are the purses for...even the big tournaments, so small compared to golf for instance?
See point 2 above...

Why is it that unless you are in the top 10 players in the world or so, you are questioning how much longer you can afford to travel around and play in tournaments?

International and even demostic flights are ever increasing in price and will continue to do so. Just look at the recent Malaysian Aircrafts... SHOCKING!

If a golf touring pro finishes about 25th in a weekly tournament, he is going to make about $50,000.00 to $60,000.00. The winner of a tournament is going to make about $1,200,000.00.

Mika Immonen finished 4th at the Hard Times Open last month and made $900.00. Dennis Orcullo won the tournament and made $3,000.00.

Making $900-$3000 per month / per tournament can become an affordable way to live albeit modest. Once Pro Pool / Semi Pro Pool Players realise that there is a need to:
- Lower financial expectations
- Work together
- Nurture the game for future generations

Then we may see an improvement to the Pool Player Lifestyle and overall financial benefits...

This is beyond sad! By the way, I don't have a whole lot of doubt that I am going to infuriate some people when I give my opinions but...I'll live with that!

I don't hold the opinion that this is sad! For me; Until there is universal change in the way Pro Pool views itself it will remain where it commercially lies...


Or as RUN DMC put it:
"It's like that, and that's the way it is."

dontlitethat said:

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Very sad but what u stated is mostly true...American pool cut it's own throat....we need a governing body for pool like Europe has for snooker, that will separate em quickly and American pool needs to stop letting the armatures compete in pro calibre events.
A qualifier that the ppl in the competition have to qualify to be able to compete with the big dogs.... Put all the big dogs in a pen at a long race and let the cream rise to the top'

My hats off to mark griffin for his efforts to create a pro circle of players... Now we just need a big money sponsor to stand on his side.

Rob.M

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Rob,

I couldn't agree more but fixing Pool from the Top Down seems a bit unlikely. I think we have to fix what is going on at the local level and learn to build that while we are working on having someone at the top.

We are very blessed to have CSI doing what they are doing that is for sure.

I hope we can figure out a way to add to that from the bottom. It was said on another thread that Pool was basically something that appealed to the lowest demographic and that is probably true. Then non smoking laws sent a lot of that demographic packing and they weren't replaced which might be true to an extent. Given that pool needs new people how else are we going to get new people from a better demographic in it other than invite them? I don't see that its going to happen otherwise and I think there is a way to do it and do it on a large scale but like anything in pool its likely people want someone else to do anything that is done.

Club Concept

Joe T said:

We're trying that approach; www.AmericanBilliardClub.com hoping to have 64 qualifying clubs in 2015.

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Joe T,
I have not read everything on your site yet or contacted the room where you have it going in NC but I will. I agree and I think most people would agree with your concept.

I have a further belief in the club concept.

I think the Pool Club concept just like a Chess Club is a way to bring new people into the sport not just organize what players we have.

Any organization that doesn't have a way of bringing new blood into the rooms is one without legs. The Room Owners have to have new customers in order to survive. I am hoping that Pool Club is something that will catch on and as people come in more is possible for Room Owners, Players and Pro Players.

I have a thread ...Pool Club Revolution....I think something can be done with the The Pool Club Concept at a local level that can attract new people.

The Real Reason

TwinkleToes said:

It is sad because NOBODY...NOBODY yet has mentioned the most basic fundamental reason why the reality exists that professional pool players cannot make a living unless we're talking about the very elite!

You see, what's sad is not that they can't make a living, what's sad is that so many people are completely oblvious to the actual reason why this is true.

Yes, if there were more honest people who organized the tournaments and yes, if some of those other things happened that some of you mentioned but...

The reason at the absolute bottom, the cause...not the effect, is what I am after and nobody seems to want to mention what that is.

Or...is it because nobody wants to either believe it's true or is actually ignorant enough to not know it's true?

So...I'm gonna keep watching to see if someone, anyone...will finally mention what the real reason is????

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The real reason in my opinion is Pool has historically pulled from the lower demographic and that was damaged by the non smoking laws. No other demographic has replaced that loss from pool and no one seems to be taking on the task of attracting a better one.

Look at Europe, better demographics for Pool do exist and this is a bottom up problem and not something a top down solution will fix as you suggest.

A lot of the things we do in Pool aren't fun for a beginner. I think you need to concentrate on Fun and Socialization and that sets the hook then a person takes on the task of becoming a better player which in turn is fun and interesting to him. People just aren't going to be great players overnight and we have forgotten how to market our sport to People. People want fun.

TwinkleToes said:

The answer to my questions are as obvious as gravity but because I am curious about the opinions of others, I would like to put these questions up for your consideration.

Why is it that the professional pool players make so little money?

Why are the purses for...even the big tournaments, so small compared to golf for instance?

Why is it that unless you are in the top 10 players in the world or so, you are questioning how much longer you can afford to travel around and play in tournaments?

If a golf touring pro finishes about 25th in a weekly tournament, he is going to make about $50,000.00 to $60,000.00. The winner of a tournament is going to make about $1,200,000.00.

Mika Immonen finished 4th at the Hard Times Open last month and made $900.00. Dennis Orcullo won the tournament and made $3,000.00.

This is beyond sad! By the way, I don't have a whole lot of doubt that I am going to infuriate some people when I give my opinions but...I'll live with that!

Opinions please!

Click to expand...

I know my opinions may differ from many that are out there, but these are my thoughts. And, they come from my perspective being in the industry for the last 9 years or so.

The reason golf has millions of dollars for tournament prize funds is basic economics, supply and demand. The facts are that companies will put up tons of money to sponsor a golf tournament because it's a profitable venture for them. When Accenture sponsors a golf tournament, they make more money than what the spend to sponsor the tournament. The viewership of golf tournaments is not only very high, but it's also the demographic of people with the discretionary income to patronize the sponsors.

The Reason pool does not have millions of dollars for tournament prize funds is basic economics, supply and demand. There are very few, comparatively speaking, that will even watch a pool tournament, and those that do may not necessarily fit into the proper demographic to attract big money sponsors.

It's as simple as that.

Our amateur pool scene, for the most part, isn't even knowledgeable of who the current professional players are. We need to go back to the basics and have our elite players earn the respect and adoration of the amateur players.

Mike Dechaine doing very well at this. It's a long hard road, but it's the only one that leads to a good strong pro contingent.

Those are my views and opinions.


Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com

The real reason: 9-ball played by robots is boring.

TwinkleToes said:

You see...if the real problem is fixed, the big sponsors...I'm talking about the billion $ sponsors, would come from far and wide to put money into the game.

The Ford's, the Home Depot's, the Lowe's, the Jack in The Box's, the Burger King's, the KPMG's, the AFLAC's.

We're not talking about entities that would add $10,000 or maybe $20,000...but $250,000 or maybe $500,000.

We're talking about commercial time during the broadcasts that will be going for 50 and 100 G's a minute.

You guys keep talking about the effects though and just ignore the real reason.

It's not rocket science people. It is basic human nature that we're talking about here!

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Please do tell what it is that everyone just isn't getting that's basic human nature that if fixed would bring gazillions into the game.

I'm really curious.