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stun follow vs. top follow
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evergruven
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stun follow vs. top follow - 08-03-2020, 10:36 PM

especially in tight situations, balls are close, etc.
moderns pros seem to prefer the stun follow
if so, what's the practical reasoning for this?


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ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
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straightline
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08-04-2020, 01:48 AM

Do you mean a stop shot with a short after run or just following from the equator or lower?

Ideally any decisions thereof would be based on comfort/consistency/accuracy/consistency in addition to consistency.

For me these choices depend on shot dimensions ie. lay of the balls; how and where the cue ball needs to go and more often than not, avoiding changeups. FI if your pattern is mostly popping ducks in, you may opt for that stun follow because the cue speed is in the same zone as the rest of the shots. Beyond that is the nagging question, "is this gonna roll off?" Other factors allowing, popping it will cure that.
  
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evergruven
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08-04-2020, 02:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by straightline View Post
Do you mean a stop shot with a short after run or just following from the equator or lower?

Ideally any decisions thereof would be based on comfort/consistency/accuracy/consistency in addition to consistency.

For me these choices depend on shot dimensions ie. lay of the balls; how and where the cue ball needs to go and more often than not, avoiding changeups. FI if your pattern is mostly popping ducks in, you may opt for that stun follow because the cue speed is in the same zone as the rest of the shots. Beyond that is the nagging question, "is this gonna roll off?" Other factors allowing, popping it will cure that.
hey straight
great initial question
sliding the cb with a lazy draw is a neat shot
stop shot after run in this case tho, I think
I believe some call it a "stun run though" shot?
of course every player/layout is unique
but I see a lot of pros use the shot
I figured the "roll off" thing might be a factor
tho pro gear appears to usually be consistent
maintaining cue speed makes sense too
help a player keep a rhythm going
those things together could count for a lot
thanks for the reply


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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336Robin
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08-04-2020, 03:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
especially in tight situations, balls are close, etc.
moderns pros seem to prefer the stun follow
if so, what's the practical reasoning for this?
One pocket players use it because its controlling whitey. You can blast a ball
you're shooting into towards another location and then roll the cue ball up behind something for defense. Deadly skill.



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evergruven
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08-04-2020, 04:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 336Robin View Post
One pocket players use it because its controlling whitey. You can blast a ball
you're shooting into towards another location and then roll the cue ball up behind something for defense. Deadly skill.
hey robin
that's a great point..
ability to control balls in a safety situation is sure worth considering
and an advantage I can visualize for the stun-run
thanks for the shout!


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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08-04-2020, 04:37 AM

it lets you stroke the ball as opposed to slow rolling
  
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Patrick Johnson
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08-04-2020, 05:18 AM

Stun rollthrough is also a way we control the carom angle, often without thinking of it as stun rollthrough.

It’s also a way to “enhance” sidespin.

It’s not just “stun” vs. “top” - stun rollthrough can be achieved by hitting any distance below center or even a little above center, depending on OB distance

pj
chgo

Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 08-04-2020 at 05:23 AM.
  
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08-04-2020, 05:36 AM

And for the really advance there is the draw/follow shot !
  
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evergruven
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08-04-2020, 06:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbb View Post
it lets you stroke the ball as opposed to slow rolling
dig that..thanks larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
Stun rollthrough is also a way we control the carom angle, often without thinking of it as stun rollthrough.

It’s also a way to “enhance” sidespin.

It’s not just “stun” vs. “top” - stun rollthrough can be achieved by hitting any distance below center or even a little above center, depending on OB distance

pj
chgo
hey pat, thanks
hitting above/below re: distance is a great point
can you explain the enhancing sidespin part?


A billiard table is that richest of metaphors,
by turns a theatre, an altar, touchstone, gauntlet,
ritual ground, a gunfighter's high noon, a refuge,
a verdant landscape for balls to scatter and rest in meaningful synchronicity,
a classroom, a karma dance, mirror of moods, a guide and trusted friend...

-- from grissim's "billiards"
  
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straightline
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08-04-2020, 06:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
hey straight
great initial question
sliding the cb with a lazy draw is a neat shot
stop shot after run in this case tho, I think
I believe some call it a "stun run though" shot?
of course every player/layout is unique
but I see a lot of pros use the shot
I figured the "roll off" thing might be a factor
tho pro gear appears to usually be consistent
maintaining cue speed makes sense too
help a player keep a rhythm going
those things together could count for a lot
thanks for the reply
Ok. I guess I semi read your post. Yeah. In close I hit punchier and higher for draw but to follow I do tend to roll the ball. Not a player so my concerns aren't so much strategic as what I can do. I will add that, in close, is fertile ground for testing you ball control.
  
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08-04-2020, 06:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
can you explain the enhancing sidespin part?
You can get "extra" side spin action by hitting a stun rollthrough with side spin - the forward speed wears off, but the side spin doesn't, resulting in a greater spin-to-speed ratio (and therefore greater spin action) than you can get otherwise.

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08-04-2020, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by btown View Post
And for the really advance there is the draw/follow shot !
The last time I did that one I lost money. Expensive shot.



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08-04-2020, 10:16 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
especially in tight situations, balls are close, etc.
moderns pros seem to prefer the stun follow
if so, what's the practical reasoning for this?
I like to use it even when I'm just showing off.


  
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08-04-2020, 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by evergruven View Post
especially in tight situations, balls are close, etc.
moderns pros seem to prefer the stun follow
if so, what's the practical reasoning for this?
I would assume the main reason is to eliminate any possible chance of rolloff (cue ball and/or object ball) that could potentially cause a miss on a slow paced hit.

Last edited by ChrisinNC; 08-04-2020 at 10:28 AM.
  
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08-04-2020, 10:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisinNC View Post
I would assume the main reason is to eliminate any possible chance of rolloff...
I'm also a little better at controlling short follow distances with stun rollthrough. With a slow roll I might have to think about getting enough OB speed.

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