Minnesota Fats - Pivoting?

“Minnesota Fats was never a top player. He was good, sure, but not tops. There have always been at least 20 people in the country who would have been glad to swim a river of shit to play Fats for money.”

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Danny McGoorty

Jucas said:

Just wondering if anyone has noticed this, or perhaps my eyes deceive me.

https://youtu.be/78pYhTK5hFc?t=288

@ 4:48 seconds, is Fats lining up with a half tip outside and pivoting in on the last stroke?

It's quite obvious when you slow the speed to .5.

Let me know your thoughts...

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I think what you are seeing is an 80+ year old overweight man who has been doing nothing but shooting balls for 70 years. I think his "practice" stroke probably varies depending on where he happens to be standing. I think you are going a little overboard with this pivot thing, but it's not all bad to be studying what you see and posing questions. My opinion on this particular issue is that there's nothing going on here. The practice stroke is off line from the final stroke but IMO this is just because of where he happens to be standing. Show him doing it on all shots and then you've got something more interesting.

Found this: https://media.giphy.com/media/2lYS7dCFQ5RezAZ16M/giphy.gif

Here's an example of a guy (Fats) stoking the cue like a wobbly duck but is deadly accurate when it comes time to delivering the cue on target. To me it shows a complete lack of formal training. He's mastered pocketing balls by doing it for 70 years. You can't tell me that a little half tip wobble on one practice stroke has any meaning for a guy with a stroke like this. There is no secret trick that allows him to play at such a high level. The real secret is that he worked hard at it and shooting balls was his job.

Don't think he's pivoting. Think it's merely a case of instinct shooting. When you play the fast and loose style, sometimes you change your mind in the middle of the stroke or apply english/change to center at the last second. This has nothing to do with any system.

There are players who pivot, for instance Bustamante, but for the most part I think the "hunt" for great players that are pivoting is wishful thinking. No offense.

I don't think he needed a pivoting aiming system to make that pedestrian shot on a home table with home table pockets .

Jucas said:

Just wondering if anyone has noticed this, or perhaps my eyes deceive me.
https://youtu.be/78pYhTK5hFc?t=288
@ 4:48 seconds, is Fats lining up with a half tip outside and pivoting in on the last stroke?
It's quite obvious when you slow the speed to .5.
Let me know your thoughts...

Click to expand...

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https://youtu.be/78pYhTK5hFc?t=180
He must've forgotten to pivot there.

I think he's pivoting but not in the CTE/Pro 1 way - although maybe he is.

I've noticed some players - including Bustamante and Rodney Morris - move their tip out of the way so they can aim the shot without being blocked by their own cue. Sometimes even aiming with the edge of their tip. Then they have the alignment fixed in their mind they stroke straight through.

I've tried this and use it very much. It's a very good way to see the shot and get the correct line.

sixpack said:

I think he's pivoting but not in the CTE/Pro 1 way - although maybe he is.

I've noticed some players - including Bustamante and Rodney Morris - move their tip out of the way so they can aim the shot without being blocked by their own cue. Sometimes even aiming with the edge of their tip. Then they have the alignment fixed in their mind they stroke straight through.

I've tried this and use it very much. It's a very good way to see the shot and get the correct line.

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What happens with your bridge hand while doing this? Does it move at all in this whole process.

JoeyInCali said:

https://youtu.be/78pYhTK5hFc?t=180
He must've forgotten to pivot there.

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How else could he miss such an easy shot?

https://youtu.be/78pYhTK5hFc?t=190
Two shots in a row.
He takes the tip down starting from the top of the cueball instead of from the side.
Much better habit than wonkying the cue I think.

cookie man said:

What happens with your bridge hand while doing this? Does it move at all in this whole process.

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No. The way I do it is I 'pre-pivot' for BHE.

It's difficult to explain how it works but basically I pivot like I'm applying BHE (1/2 tip of inside english) and then get things lined up, then pivot my cue back into the line of the shot.

It's just another way of looking at the shot. I find it easier to aim with the edge of my cue than the top.